Rugby World Cup 2003 - The Rugby Widows Weep!

[Andydog]

Originally posted by Finbar
The ABs have copped a hell of a fright, revealing weaknesses in those areas in which the Boks are particularly strong. The Boks are both motivated and confident, though they will miss VanNiekerk, while Hogaard has brought a definite potency that Koen completely lacked. Can the ABs sort out their problems within a week?

They boys seem to think so. Since the game they've been saying that such things as standing out of position while on defensive, and the looseness of the tight five, are deficiencies that can be easily fixed. We will see.

Mitchell has named his team, just one change, Jack in for Brad Thorn. I think that If Williams can put it in in the tight and steal SA ball then he should be played ahead of Thorn as a more experienced and technical lock. I am a Brad Thorn fan but he should be held back for 30 minutes from the end to 'unleash'.

I disagree with leaving out Sooialo. This means that should Collins go off, McCaw slots in at no.8. Leave our best player at no.7 as it is too late in the mix to now be dicking around with such crucial positions leading into a winner takes all game against a dominant SA pack. Sooialo has to be given the job but needs a good barking in the ear from the coaching staff to cut down the error rate and smash any SA forward within range.

Rueben Thorne MUST lift his game threefold or I don't think he is worth having in the side. We need to see some inspirational stuff from our captain as Keith Wood provides for Ireland.

I don't think NZ is sandbagging with Umaga. I think he'll start against Aussie, (provided we get there!). We need Umaga if he is fit which leaves the kicking up to Aaron Mauger who I feel is a better option in terms of experience and rhythm for this AB team. Carter is class but still better off the bench at this RWC.

I think the Wales game is just the right tonic for this AB team as they will come out fighting now that they have their backs to the wall. The SA's will come for us for sure but our boys will not lie down and die. An All Black team with it's back to the wall will do our country proud............ get behind them boys!

[Havak]

Kaplan and white in the same game... I am convinced now... they are mad!

White is probably the best official left in the mix. Kaplan on the other hand – my commiserations to you.

The knob who flew home to be at the birth of his child?

Well yes – although I might have put it differently as I really like the guy – very modest and unassuming chap. But I take your point, the maths was rather easy. In his defence he does fall in and out of favour with Clive regularly – he didn’t figure at all in the six nations (conception around the start of same) and bust his way back in with a terrific showing in the warm up tests before final squad selection.

Personally – at their respective peak of form – I would honestly pick him over Dally. He is less one dimensional.

Oddly enough, I'm not the only one who thinks England's forwards aren't slow just in the leg-speed department.

I’ll let that one pass. It might be interesting to come back to the comparative educational qualifications of the English and Wallaby squads at some point though.

I suspect the compromise will be - subject to the Wallabies being in control of Scotland - bringing on the likes of Tuquiri and Giteau early in the second half. I just can't see Gregan being replaced early.

Eddie has backed George so firmly only an injury to the lad would allow him to make a face saving change of plan on that one?

I really can’t see Scotland troubling you. Their traditional strength is in the pack and that simply hasn’t been firing this tournament. I don’t see you troubling the Kiwis right now however – then again I expected Wales to be buried by them too. That’s the joy of rugger.

They sit on him. I also think that, like Eddie, he finds it hard to consider changing horses.

And that is a real shame – it might hold him back from being remembered as a true great. One thing the English skipper has done is change with the game – he was little more than a formidable scrumming tractor when he started playing (as scrums could then go the length of the field so locks carrying ball was very rare). Cue comment saying “so what has changed?”

I can only put my error down to salivating at the prospect of watching another vintage England loss. And they didn't show any!

Your heart must drop every time you see Jonno lead them out –as the most successful English skipper ever his win ratio is pretty impressive – even against the SH.
*touch paper lit, retire 5M. It is the fifth November after all.

Can the ABs sort out their problems within a week? Do the Boks have the necessary attacking firepower to capitalise? I suspect the latter is what it might come down to, and I'm not sure that they have.

I tend to agree with you there – but like yourself I am occasionally wrong.

The Umaga business has to be sandbagging unless the initial reports of his injury were grossly exaggerated. It’s probably designed to detract from teams analysing his protégé too much?

Did you know he did time in gaol in his very early days for (from memory) dabbling in ill-gotten goods?

Oh yes – under that veneer of class it’s “cheap as chips”.

I just wonder whether Clive is of the personality to put their heads in the right place. Time will tell.

Clive is not the key really – Martin is. And time indeed will tell. I’m so hoping for a big performance against the Welsh.

He called it as it was. He's certainly one of the best communicators on the field.

You amaze me. He has been extremely pedantic the last few times I have seen him live here. But he is definitely a talker – I’ll concede that. Talks nonsense a lot of the time though.

Replace a few words, go back a few years and you could fill in for Monty at El Alamein.

I need to look at myself carefully – Churchill a while back and now Monty. I’m hardly supposed to be at their end of the political spectrum.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
They boys seem to think so. Since the game they've been saying that such things as standing out of position while on defensive, and the looseness of the tight five, are deficiencies that can be easily fixed. We will see.

I'm prepared to believe that the ABs took the Welsh too lightly. They - the ABs - started like a train, as if expecting to turn on an exhibition of backline wizardry and thanks for coming. In so doing, they seemed not even to think about defence. When they realised the Welsh hadn't turned up to be the stooges in the act, they then seemed incapable of adjustment. I wonder if it might have been different had the ABs taken the field with a better ordered plan?

It seemed to me a quite different scenario to England's two frights. In neither fright match did England start well. The oppo jumped them and they took a long time to adjust.

Rueben Thorne MUST lift his game threefold or I don't think he is worth having in the side. We need to see some inspirational stuff from our captain as Keith Wood provides for Ireland.

Thorne is another of Mitchell's contentious choices, is he not? As skipper if not player?

I don't think NZ is sandbagging with Umaga. I think he'll start against Aussie, (provided we get there!).

How about a 5 Civ Gold bet? He suffered - it is said - a very serious knee injury on October 11. That's 25 days ago. It will be roughly 35 days come the SFs. Even if the knee has mended, he will have been doing some running at most. Preparation for a World Cup SF? Mmmmmmmm.

We need Umaga if he is fit which leaves the kicking up to Aaron Mauger who I feel is a better option in terms of experience and rhythm for this AB team. Carter is class but still better off the bench at this RWC.

Methinks you'll end up with Mauger and Carter. Not first choice, certainly, but not half bad. I've been very impressed with Carter. You'll miss Umaga's defence, that's the problem. I think defence - or lack of - will cost Nonu his chance.

[Tamerlin]

In spite of his build, it is better to be compared to Churchill rather than to Monty, certainly one of the worst general in military history.

Do you remember what said the head of the government in exile after the Operation Market Garden was deemed a success by the culprit: "Netherlands can not afford itself another victory of Montgomery?"

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
and bust his way back in with a terrific showing in the warm up tests before final squad selection.

Well, he'd proved his manhood to himself, hadn't he?

I’ll let that one pass. It might be interesting to come back to the comparative educational qualifications of the English and Wallaby squads at some point though.

In that Telstra ad I was telling you about, the England forwards had trouble drawing noughts and crosses on the whiteboard.

Eddie has backed George so firmly only an injury to the lad would allow him to make a face saving change of plan on that one?

Yep. And now the team has been released. Tuquiri in for Joe Roff, Mortlock for Burke, and The Plank replacing Vickerman on the bench. Joe Roff on the bench while Wendell starts? Bizarre. Certainly, Joe hasn't been firing as well as he should, but he's proven class. Quite bizarre. Does Wendell have photos of Eddie and a Poodle or something? Still, at least Tuquiri and Mortlock are starting. Tuquiri will probably end up starved of the ball, but at least Mortlock will create some impetus. The Plank coming onto the bench? Well, Plank, this is your big chance on the World Stage. It's up to you, son.

Cue comment saying “so what has changed?”

I'm sure Tamerlin will be happy to oblige as soon as he gets back from his quick trip to the Pacific to measure the inside leg of that grenouille fille's wet suit.

Your heart must drop every time you see Jonno lead them out –as the most successful English skipper ever his win ratio is pretty impressive – even against the SH.
*touch paper lit, retire 5M. It is the fifth November after all.

I'm still wondering how many cameras his mum must have broken.

I’m so hoping for a big performance against the Welsh.

Odds are they won't be able to do it again.

You amaze me. He has been extremely pedantic the last few times I have seen him live here.

I think he's been consistent with the style the refs are using - jumping on any sign of the defending team mucking around at the breakdown and ignoring the lineout tunnels except when they become obsessed by them. Oh, and ignoring forward passes. Oh, and I've forgotten which ref it was, but one of them pinged the runners for crossing the line before the ball was kicked at a restart. Both teams did exactly the same thing for every restart before the pinging and for every restart after the pinging. Most odd.

I need to look at myself carefully – Churchill a while back and now Monty. I’m hardly supposed to be at their end of the political spectrum.

Yes, and we already know where you stand on playing only for the country in which you were born, Enoch.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
In spite of his build, it is better to be compared to Churchill rather than to Monty, certainly one of the worst general in military history.

Coming from one of Napoleon's ttards? Pots and kettles!

Edit. Jeepers! We've hit 500! Caligastia, where are you? Just make the next one Part 2 or something.

[Tamerlin]

IMO Churchill had something that lacked Montgomery... humour. Do I have to remember you Churchill's answer to a journalist asking him what was the secret that allowed him to resist to two world wars and to lead Great Britain through the second one?

[Havak]

It seemed to me a quite different scenario to England's two frights. In neither fright match did England start well. The oppo jumped them and they took a long time to adjust.

Quite right. We have played very poorly under pressure – and won every game. God help the team we find some form against (probably Italy next spring?)

Do you remember what said the head of the government in exile after the Operation Market Garden was deemed a success by the culprit: "Netherlands can not afford itself another victory of Montgomery?"

Interestingly BBC2 had a program on last night about one of the VC winners at Arnhem and you know what – Monty wasn’t at fault. It that’s old Oxy Moron Military Intelligence. Had they actually taken note of the information they received from the Dutch and aerial photos they might have realised an SS Panzer Division had recently been moved to and was refitting in the area and either called of the plan or at least sent the airborne forces in with a few anti tank weapons.

But the worst General in history? Surely any one of Napoleans boys sent scurrying by Wellington? Or even his brother – the man he tried to make King of Spain?

Well, he'd proved his manhood to himself, hadn't he?

He’s a nice guy, trust me on that.

In that Telstra ad I was telling you about, the England forwards had trouble drawing noughts and crosses on the whiteboard.

Well that’s the thing with Fiction I guess – that it’s fictional?

Does Wendell have photos of Eddie and a Poodle or something?

Best line for months!

As for Plank – last chance saloon for the boy. One game two years ago does not a world class lock make.

Neil Backs web site has photo’s proving he and Jonno had a time before ‘Worn Leather lived in face’ became the main feature – for your sake I’ll not link to them here.

Nigel Williams pinged Uruguay for advancing too quickly at the restart once against England – and Uruguay certainly infringed afterwards (we had no more restarts after that call but were no doubt guilty before it) so could that be the game?

Yes, and we already know where you stand on playing only for the country in which you were born, Enoch.

My stand on State of Origin for rugby is fully compartmentalised from issues of race, colour and naturalisation for non sport purposes thank you very much – as you should well know.

I did note by the way I’m not a totally lone voice –unless Caligastia was taking the mickey out of me and I missed it that is.

[Caligastia]

Here's the new thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=100864