Dean VS. Clark

[dainbramaged13]

What is your opinion?
It looks like it will come down to these two. Who do you think will win, and who do you think should win? Can either of them beat the Bush?

Let the games begin...

[chequita guevara]

Well, Dean's not a liar who says he always was opposed to the war when in fact he supported it. Nor was he a Republican up until a couple of months ago. Since Bush's main strength is fooling people into thinking he's a straight shooter, if he doesn't get clobbbered on the lies about Iraq, then he'll be able to hammer Clark on integrity.

[Bosh]

Dean done more than his share of flip-flopping so he's not much better there...

[chequita guevara]

Yeah, but it's not fundimental to his identity. I'm highly iritated by the Clark campaign, which seems to me to be an attempt by the DLC to maintain their death grip on the Democratic Party. They hate Dean beause, despite his slightly left of center politics, he's energizing the "hated" Democratic Party base, which threatens their grip on power.

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by Boshko
Dean done more than his share of flip-flopping so he's not much better there...

OK. This is where I am lost. Where is his flip-flopping? Show me examples. Even if the claims are valid, the issues he has been reportedly been insecure about are not central to his campaign. Politicians today have become too entrenched in party lines so that they are unable to think for themselves, which Dean is fighting against. If he is unclear on a few minor issues, so be it! He does not try to deceive people and is far from the vote-hungry change-on-a-whim manipulator that some on this site have made him out to be.

[Dis]

I prefer Clark over Dean.

But I'll vote for either one over Bush

[Bosh]

Where is his flip-flopping?

Trade issues is the biggest one I think.

[Edan]

With Deans flip flops on a lot of issues (free trade, Cuba, retirement age, the middle east, whether we should add or reduce the number of troops in Iraq, etc) mostly to get more votes in the primary, and will undoubtably flip flop again to the center if he ends up against Bush.

It's Clark for me. If it were Dean vs Bush, I probably wouldn't vote for either, or I might vote, reluctantly, for Bush.

[Dis]

I believe Russert pointed out some of his differing views when he was on Meet the Press.

Dean really didn't do too bad on Meet the Press. But he did look like a weenie. But a smart weenie.

[dainbramaged13]

I read the thread about Meet the Press, and it seemed like Russert just didn't give him a chance to explain himself. If I were Dean, I would have smacked him and said B*tch let me finish! I understood his positions perfectly, I would explain them to you but I have hours of homework still awaiting me.

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by Edan
If it were Dean vs Bush, I probably wouldn't vote for either, or I might vote, reluctantly, for Bush.

I sincerely hope this is not true... At least investigate the matter a little further before you do something so stupid as this.

[Edan]

Originally posted by dainbramaged13


I sincerely hope this is not true... At least investigate the matter a little further before you do something so stupid as this.

I hope Dean's slogan isn't going to be "Don't vote for Bush, that's stupid".

Of course, Dean isn't inspiring me by countering criticism by other Democrats by saying that Bush is the real enemy, so they shouldn't be criticising him.

[MrFun]

Dean all the way!!!!!!!!!

[dainbramaged13]

Originally posted by Edan


I hope Dean's slogan isn't going to be "Don't vote for Bush, that's stupid".

It'd work for me

Of course, Dean isn't inspiring me by countering criticism by other Democrats by saying that Bush is the real enemy, so they shouldn't be criticising him.

Thats not all he's said... Yes, he used that line once or twice, but he was the first candidate to come out so strongly against Bush, and its a major part of his campaign; all the others seem to be copying his style now. Obviously he makes counter-arguments, and if you'd listen to the debates you'd see that.

[Edan]

It'd work for me

Yeah, but he's already got your vote.

Thats not all he's said... Yes, he used that line once or twice, but he was the first candidate to come out so strongly against Bush, and its a major part of his campaign;

Simply being anti-Bush is not a platform to become president on. It'll get you loads of extreme partisan support but won't win you an election (unless Bush's poll numbers go really south, in which case it doesn't matter who the Democrat is).

And if, as I predict, he moves to the center, he'll lose some of that partisan support and not get as much from the independents/center as the other candidates would, mostly from his continual flip flop floping.

all the others seem to be copying his style now. Obviously he makes counter-arguments, and if you'd listen to the debates you'd see that.

I've only watched two of the debates but I haven't seen any reason to vote for Dean (and his counter-arguments were sometimes flip-flops in themselves. "Oh, I didn't mean that...", plus claims that just aren't true, like "I'm the only candidate to talk about racial issues in front of an all white crowd".. uh, right.. sure) Give me Clark, Gephart, Kerry or Lieberman. Just not Dean.