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@Tingkai who seems to wander away in his thoughts from common sense.
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@Tingkai who seems to wander away in his thoughts from common sense.
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I partially agree with you, but I wouldn't say the US has slid back. It is just stagnating. 30 years ago they had skylab, after the Russian did it, now they're still working on its repacement.Originally posted by Curiosity
America has slid back in recent years... they're really about where they were in the late '50s in many respects. If that.
A vigorous space program could leapfrog the US within a decade. Not that China is likely to try, though.
Unfortunately, the US government prefers to spend hundreds of billions of dollars invading and occupying other countries.
Imagine what the US could have done with the billions that Junior is wasting on Iraq.
Meanwhile China is moving forward, creating jobs for engineers and scientists, developing real knowledge of technology, establishing a high-tech industry, creating goals for kids to pursue, opening the way for further economic growth.
China's space program will create results that will benefit the country, just as NASA did for the States.Golfing since 67Comment
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Congrats China!
The next milestone is much more expensive.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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China's space program will create results that will benefit the country, just as NASA did for the States.
nah. NASA and the soviets were breaking ground. China is treading on a well-known path.Comment
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Originally posted by DanS
And much of it is just a rebadged Russian product.
According to the New York Times, the Chinese purchased what was basically an empty shell of a Soyuz, so quite a bit of the technology was Chinese-designed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/14/science/space/14CHIN.html?pagewanted=2&8bl
They didn't buy a whole Soyuz," said Mr. Clark, who writes space books and articles from Britain. "It was a descent module stripped of innards, so mostly a shell." The Chinese also bought a life-support system, he added, and a pressurized suit for wearing inside the spacecraft.
Experts said the Chinese carefully studied and adapted Russian gear to their own needs. "They had to build and test and prove everything themselves," said Mr. Oberg, who lives near Houston. "So most of the similarities are superficial. The one exception is the suit. It copies the Russian design down to the stitching pattern."Comment
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I'm referring to the larger product. The astronauts were trained in Russia, etc. Also, the lead rocket designer and I'm sure many/most others are Russian-trained.
Of course, this isn't bad. Why reinvent the wheel?I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Now this could be a typical comment from a loser who tries to justifies his failure by success of others.Originally posted by Azazel
China's space program will create results that will benefit the country, just as NASA did for the States.
nah. NASA and the soviets were breaking ground. China is treading on a well-known path.
Or it could be ironic complacency.
There was a time when China was exploring the high seas, but then they stopped because they figured what was the point. Been there, done that. Nothing out there, but a bunch of worthless barbarians.
Thankfully, that attitude no longer rules.Golfing since 67Comment
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True.Originally posted by DanS
I'm referring to the larger product. The astronauts were trained in Russia, etc. Also, the lead rocket designer and I'm sure many/most others are Russian-trained.
Of course, this isn't bad. Why reinvent the wheel?
Sure, Russia provided the initial jump start in knowledge and from there the Chinese developed a better system. It's similar to the jump start the Americans received from German knowledge. That doesn't diminish the incredible accomplishment achieved by the US, what I consider the shining example of what American society can achieve.Golfing since 67Comment
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Re: Yeah, everyone toots their own horns
Sorry, you missed my point. My point was that China is the first country to have an operating mag-lev passenger line. Germans and Japanese created the tech, but only built test tracks.Originally posted by Straybow
My understanding was that the maglev was a project undertaken by a German enr & constr firm,
As for Shanghai's train, A German company provided the technology and the first train. Chinese built the tracks, and are now building the other "rolling" stock.
Actually, the tallest under construction is the Shanghai World Financial Center in Pudong, Shanghai, scheduled to be completed in 2007 (some sources say 2005). It will stand at 492 m (1,624 ft), with 101 stories.and the tallest building under construction (Union Square Phase 7 due in 2007) is in continuation of a pre-takeover Hong Kong project.
I agree, but the point is the significance of joining in terms of China's coming of age internationally.
China was admitted to the WTO in hopes of leveraging diplomatic influence to improve workers rights and induce freedom of trade.
Undoubtedly that occurred! Wine, women, and song is a standard business operating procedure in China.
Everybody knows IOC members were falling for the wine, women & song routine (and a few bribes to close the deal) all through the '90s. Can the World Expo be that different?
But again, the symbolism is very significant. Nobody remembers the problems associated with the Crystal Palace Exhibition.
I, too, fear for the potentially massive environmental problems associated with the project. But again, the point was they are building the largest dam and hydroelectric powerplant in the history of man.As for the Three Gorges Dam ...
As I said in my original post, "Taken together it's pretty impressive, (...) a great symbolic turning point in Chinese (and world) history."Comment
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Not very similar. So far, in an 11-year time-frame, the Chinese have have matched what the Russians did 45 years ago, not surpassed it, as both the US and USSR teams did within 10 years of obtaining the German technology.It's similar to the jump start the Americans received from German knowledge.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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My failure to build a space rocket is killing me from the inside.Originally posted by Tingkai
Now this could be a typical comment from a loser who tries to justifies his failure by success of others.
Or it could be ironic complacency.
Complacent? Should I be worried about something? WTG to China for the success in launching a human into orbit, but that stuff was done 40 years ago, and all the spinoff technologies and practices have been used for quite some time. It's a necessary step in space exploration, but it'll hardly bring the benefits the first space exploration brought.
There was a time when China was exploring the high seas, but then they stopped because they figured what was the point. Been there, done that. Nothing out there, but a bunch of worthless barbarians.
Thankfully, that attitude no longer rules.
I am not saying China shouldn't progress into space. Indeed, that Chinese complacency is what allowed the west to rule the world for hundreds of years now, through the onset of modern times, to this very day. However, what I am saying is this step is hardly significant, in terms of real progress. To say that the fact that China launched a man into orbit, while, say, France, didn't, is a sign of China's technological superiority over France is pure rethoric, nothing more.
Oh, and the comparison with German knowledge is not in place. Did the Germans reach space?Comment
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Uh, I don't think that's true. The fleet was destroyed due, primarily, to political in-fighting at the imperial court.Originally posted by Tingkai
There was a time when China was exploring the high seas, but then they stopped because they figured what was the point. Been there, done that. Nothing out there, but a bunch of worthless barbarians.
Far from "been there, done that", the dealings with the "barbarians" brought vast riches to China, so profitable that the court eunuchs who were running the show became very wealthy and powerful. According to Louise Levathes' well-documented "When China Ruled the Seas", the reasons for the decline of the fleet were:
* Conflict at the court between the Confucian officials and the wealthy eunuchs (the Confucians gained the upper hand and were able to have the fleet burned and shipyards abandoned. They were able to enact law that disallowed the construction of multi-masted sea-going vessels).
* Opening of the Grand Canal precipitated a shift in the focus of ship-building from sea-going vessels to canal-faring barges
* Extreme inflation (Ming paper money lost 99% of its value) ruined international trade
* The threat of the Mongols (who had recently captured the Emporer himself!) required re-allocating military resources from coastal activities to Great Wall-centered efforts.
The saddest chapter occurred later when a eunuch official demanded all of the records of the "Treasure Fleet" in an attempt to rekindle interest in voyaging abroad. In response, the Vice President of the Ministry of War ordered all of the records to be either hidden or destroyed. All of the priceless documentation was lost forever.
Within a generation China went from world's foremost seapower to being defenceless against marauding Japanese pirates who raided at will.
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Originally postedby Azazel
To say that the fact that China launched a man into orbit, while, say, France, didn't, is a sign of China's technological superiority over France is pure rethoric, nothing more. .
Is someone saying that? I dont' think anyone is claiming that it proves China's technological superiority. It's really a coming-of-age statement.
Oh, and the comparison with German knowledge is not in place. Did the Germans reach space?
I think his point was that the US entry into space was not accomplished solely trough American expertise, just as China used technical expertise from elsewhere. As he said, this did not tarnish the American achievement, and neither should it tarnish China's.
Edit: added second quote & responseComment
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coming-of-age as what?Originally posted by mindseye
Originally postedby Azazel
To say that the fact that China launched a man into orbit, while, say, France, didn't, is a sign of China's technological superiority over France is pure rethoric, nothing more. .
Is someone saying that? I dont' think anyone is claiming that it proves China's technological superiority. It's really a coming-of-age statement.Comment
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