Should Turkey be allowed to join the EU?

[laurentius]

Rufus, I think the military is seriously pressuring the current government in its actions. It's just doing it behind the curtains

[Az]

Originally posted by laurentius
Rufus, I think the military is seriously pressuring the current government in its actions. It's just doing it behind the curtains

So well that it actually does much of the stuff that the military strives for itself? In any case, we should be glad that this newly formed party isn't taking the islamic route.

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
I don't understand why Americans are so eagerly lobbying for EU to accept Turkey as a member? Let's see if they can solve the human rights issues and then we can start the discussion. But absoloutely not before or even during that process.

I think the discussion is in the air for years now, and it already caused changes in Turkey (eg. no death penalty anymore). That is IMO they way to go - give Trukey a perpective for EU membership, but make crystal clear that this comes not without more reforms in the country.

Every member of the EU has to agree to certain rules esp. when it comes to human rights issues, so must Turkey, if they want to be in the union.

[Harovan]

I have nothing against Turkey joining the EU, after they finished to do their human rights homework and solve the problem of the Kurds without killing them all. They are already doing this work, but that's a fairly long process. So I have no doubt they will be let in, but probably not before about 2015 or 2020. But in the end they will be in. I don't give a flying **** about their religion and them being muslims makes no difference to me.

I am not saying you have to let them into the EU now, what I am saying is to let them ( their leadership ) know, that if they'll succeed in the task of becoming european, there is a reward in it.

Azazel, I believe that is exactly what they are told.

[Az]

paiktis asked me to post this for him:

Turkey will never be part of the EU. It would be nice if that was because of the murders of millions, the rapes and the attrocities which must be payed with blood. See Laurentius link Greeks in Turkey for info. But it will not become part of the EU for other lesser
reasons:

1)Military will not get out of politics. This will simply not hapen or Turkey will go deeper into Islamism. Without the army out of politics EU will not accept it. It is a catch 22 with no escape.

2) Human rights. There are no human rights in Turkey if you dont consider yourself Turk and even then they are not a lot.

3) Turkey is vast and vastly poor (it will be curtailed when we kick their asses)

4) US-Turkey link. US weapons make the Turkey attrocities and occupation possible. US sucks and is anti-European. Untill this changes the EU will not accept a snake in its bossom.

The only word that comes to mind when I think of Turkley is revenge those bastards with rivers of blood and that doesn't include entrance in the EU.


I want to point out that I will NOT post anything else by paiktis. I am not here to re-send his messages.

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Azazel
You see, that's what I am not sure of. In this site, a british source, I saw contemporary quotes that've shown all-around genocide, with the armenians being targeted the most by the turks, and turks targetting other groups as well, but I also saw that turks got slaughtered whenever the armenians or any other group could kill them, as well. With the support of the Russian army, for example, during WWI.

The issue of Cyprus is also not as easy as the EU and the UN would like us to believe. During the civil war in cyprus that led to the intervention by turkey, and the creation of the turkish regime in the north, The turkish minority in the island was threatened with genocide by the greek, and their nationalist religious leaders. I think that the issue is once again not as obvious as some, esp. the EU would like us to think.

So would you have the victims just sit there and let themselves be deported and slaughtered without a chance to fight back? You of all people should understand what it means when a people are exterminated by another. I am disappointed in you. You buy the propaganda that the Turkish government puts out because it is in Israel's security interest not to damage the relationship between Israel and Turkey. While I thoroughly understand the need to have allies in a volitile part of the world I do not understand how you and your government can call the genocide insignificant. Your people share a history of persecution as do mine and I'm insulted by anyone who would deny such events took place.

Tell my grandparents who were forced to abandon their homes in Marash and forced to march across the desert to Syria or die that the genocide never took place.

You're sadly mistaken if you believe that an ally who believes in Pan-Turanism is any diferent that nations who support Pan-Arabism. The goal is ultimately the same no matter what banner it flies under.

[Az]

If I'd buy any of the Turkish propoganda I'd think that you were the ones attacking them.

So would you have the victims just sit there and let themselves be deported and slaughtered without a chance to fight back?

Not by attacking other civilians, and killing thousands of them, as well. Two wrongs don't make a right. Jews never killed german civilians during WWII.

Oh, and if you think that my position vis a vis this issue is because of the relationship of Israel with Turkey, you're very much mistaken. I have no problem denouncing the racist South African regime, even though my country had many contacts with it, and I have no problems denouncing my govenment for making that connection.

Look, I am not claiming that there was no genocide and mass killing of innocent Armenians. What I am claiming is that the Armenians sure didn't have any bad feelings about doing the same thing to the Turks whenever the opportunity came, and it came a couple of times, when the Russian forces allowed it to happen.

Of course Turks, were the main guilty party in that civil war. Neither did I call that genocide "insignificant". I would like to point out that they weren't the only ones, and such atrocities were committed by all sides, in that era.

[laurentius]

nice attempted-troll there Azazel

I'm sure paiktis would never say anything that moderate

[Az]

Azazel? It ain't me. It's paiktis.

[laurentius]

And why wouldnt he use his own Login or are YOU and paiktis one and the same?

[Drake Tungsten]

Does this mean I'm supposed to troll Azazel now?

[Az]

LMAO! That's because he's banned, silly!

[laurentius]

Oh i see. Banned? For doing what?

[Drake Tungsten]

Calling me names...

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by Azazel
If I'd buy any of the Turkish propoganda I'd think that you were the ones attacking them. (Point taken)


Two wrongs don't make a right. (Agreed but tell that to the victims)

Oh, and if you think that my position vis a vis this issue is because of the relationship of Israel with Turkey, you're very much mistaken. I have no problem denouncing the racist South African regime, even though my country had many contacts with it, and I have no problems denouncing my govenment for making that connection. (Thank you that changes my opinion of your views in the positive direction)

Look, I am not claiming that there was no genocide and mass killing of innocent Armenians. What I am claiming is that the Armenians sure didn't have any bad feelings about doing the same thing to the Turks whenever the opportunity came, and it came a couple of times, when the Russian forces allowed it to happen.

Of course Turks, were the main guilty party in that civil war. Neither did I call that genocide "insignificant". I would like to point out that they weren't the only ones, and such atrocities were committed by all sides, in that era. (Our people have been persecuted for centuries and were on the verge of extinction many times in it's troubled history. Thank goodness that the Russians came to our aid for I strongly believe that we would not exist today if it weren't for their help. What Stalin did later was terrible but that is a topic for another discussion. Killing is a horrible thing no matter what the reason but I am gratefull that I am here today to discuss the matter with you all. Since world opinion does not give a damn about history I'm glad matters were taken into our own hands. Hitler it seems was right when he stated "Who remembers the Armenians?")