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Mac's Expose a blatant copy of MS technology

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  • Mac's Expose a blatant copy of MS technology


    Exclusive: PDC Attendees to Get Aero Demo Only

    Because Microsoft wants to maintain its competitive advantage during the next 2 years while the company preps Windows Longhorn for release, Microsoft Professional Developers Conference (PDC) 2003 attendees won't get the code for Aero, Longhorn's exciting and innovative GUI. Instead, attendees will receive a special Longhorn build that has the Aero bits removed, and Microsoft executives will provide only a special demonstration preview of Aero during Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates's keynote address. I've now verified these plans with several sources at and close to Microsoft.

    "[Until early September] Microsoft wasn't sure whether it would just demo Aero or supply it to PDC attendees," one source told me recently. Microsoft made the decision to demonstrate Aero only because of the long delay between PDC 2003 and Longhorn's final release, which is set for late 2005. If the company released all its UI work now, its OS competitors--such as Apple Computer and various companies and organizations in the Linux camp, all of which have fewer customers and faster release cycles than Microsoft--would be able to clone the Longhorn work before the OS's release. This problem has dogged Microsoft in the past, the most recent example being Apple's Expose technology, which will ship in Mac OS X 10.3 late this year. Microsoft has been demonstrating Expose-like technology for years now, but the technology won't show up in Windows until the Longhorn release at the earliest.

    Despite the absence of Aero, the code that PDC 2003 attendees will receive is intriguing. For the past several weeks, Microsoft has forked the Longhorn code to develop a special PDC build that's separate and distinct from the main code fork. This build will include virtually every Longhorn technology except Aero and will feature a new, darker theme that supplants the alpha Longhorn builds' lackluster Plex visual style. Microsoft is struggling to complete this special build in time for the show, which will be held in Los Angeles in late October. I'll provide more information about PDC 2003 and the special Longhorn build as it becomes available.
    What else is new.

    Shame Aero won't be publically available, from the tech demos of the engine behind it it should be incrediblly stunning and dwarf every other UI out there in terms of elegance, functionality, and performance.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

  • #2
    @ Apple.

    And go MS!

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    • #3
      Hooray for Bill Gates!

      ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
      ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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      • #4
        Hip-Hip Hooray!

        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • #5
          Technology belongs to everyone. Hoarding patents is immoral.
          Blog | Civ2 Scenario League | leo.petr at gmail.com

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          • #6
            Is there any proof that Expose was stolen beyond a claim by Microsoft representatives? Not the most trustworthy of people.
            KH FOR OWNER!
            ASHER FOR CEO!!
            GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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            • #7


              Copycatting is commonplace in the tech industry, meathead! Apple and Micro$uck$ copycat each other all the time. This is nothing new.

              This thread is nothing but a BIG FAT piece of !

              Go figure --->
              HAVE A DAY.
              <--- Quote by Former U.S. President Theodore "Teddy" Roosevelt
              "And there will be strange events in the skies--signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!" --Luke 21:25-28
              For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the call of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, all the Christians who have died will rise from their graves. Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and remain with him forever. --1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                Is there any proof that Expose was stolen beyond a claim by Microsoft representatives? Not the most trustworthy of people.
                The only reference is from Paul Thurrott, a notorious anti-Apple troll and owner of the "winsupersite". That being the case, this isn't worth responding to. I would point out that the tech underlying Expose has been publicly available since the OS X Public Beta, which was released in early 2000. All Expose is, is an adaptation of the Quartz animations used for various UI elements since OS X first saw light.

                Even if what Asher claims is true, and that is unproven, it follows that M$ will have taken six years longer than Apple to incorporate supposedly their own technology into their own products. What better proof of M$ incompetence could there be?

                There's another explanation for the non-inclusion of Aero with these builds - it doesn't yet work properly.
                Only feebs vote.

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                • #9
                  So this is just more Asher BS, eh? Figures...
                  KH FOR OWNER!
                  ASHER FOR CEO!!
                  GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
                    So this is just more Asher BS, eh? Figures...
                    Yeah it looks that way without more proof. Remember the one where your itunes files would delete themselves if you left the US?

                    How are yours doing BTW?
                    Only feebs vote.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Agathon
                      The only reference is from Paul Thurrott, a notorious anti-Apple troll and owner of the "winsupersite".
                      Editor of Windows 2000 magazine, Windows 2003 Magazine, etc. too. And it's not the only reference, it was first demoed at WinHEC 1999.

                      Even if what Asher claims is true, and that is unproven, it follows that M$ will have taken six years longer than Apple to incorporate supposedly their own technology into their own products. What better proof of M$ incompetence could there be?
                      First off, where do you get 6 years from?
                      10.3 will be available late 2003 (essentially 2004), while Longhorn will be out in 2005. Are your math skills truly that bad?

                      Further, MS has a much harder time than Apple does. Apple has full control and EXTREMELY limited hardware compared to what MS has to support properly. Further, Apple has a userbase a miniscule fraction the size of MS'. Combine the two and you can have faster product cycles, and do FAR less testing (which explains the recent F*cked up OS 10.2 patch, the iTunes-upgrade-that-toasts-your-harddrive, etc).

                      There's another explanation for the non-inclusion of Aero with these builds - it doesn't yet work properly.

                      But the engine powering Aero has been shown to be working almost a year ago. Aero is simply the textures and layout of it.
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Agathon
                        Yeah it looks that way without more proof. Remember the one where your itunes files would delete themselves if you left the US?

                        How are yours doing BTW?
                        The only BS is from Drake -- my friend has confirmed this on his iBook with the tunes he bought while in vacation in the US this summer. (he backed them up first )

                        Drake, apparently, has no clue how to properly change his region in iTunes.
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If Apple can get out a similar or better performing (looking) product just as fast: then more power to them.

                          Unless it's patented. But couldn't you also claim MS stole ideas from Apple back in the 80s with early Windows? Both sides will make critical innovations and each side will try to mimic the other's critical innovations. Claiming they can't use it is like a car company saying another company can't put in seats because they patented them first.
                          meet the new boss, same as the old boss

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                          • #14
                            My problem is the Apple people seem to think everything comes from their camp.

                            Of course, the Fast User Switching in 10.3 is also an Apple innovation, right.

                            And Safari -- no other OS maker has bundled a high-speed internet browser before, right?
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Asher

                              Editor of Windows 2000 magazine, Windows 2003 Magazine, etc. too. And it's not the only reference, it was first demoed at WinHEC 1999.
                              That's all I could find, since you provided no reference.

                              First off, where do you get 6 years from?
                              10.3 will be available late 2003 (essentially 2004), while Longhorn will be out in 2005. Are your math skills truly that bad?
                              Quite easily, Quartz was in a workable state and released to the general public for purchase in early 2000. Longhorn is supposed to be available in the last quarter of 05 and Aero is being withheld until then, if I understood Mr Thurrott's article correctly - however, I've heard early 06.

                              There are all sorts of haxies that take advantage of it. Expose is not much more than that. It looks nice, but is just an additional use of features X has had since the start.

                              Further, MS has a much harder time than Apple does. Apple has full control and EXTREMELY limited hardware compared to what MS has to support properly.
                              Awwwww..... sucks to be Bill

                              Further, Apple has a userbase a miniscule fraction the size of MS'.
                              What does that have to do with it? Some people are still using 8.5.

                              Combine the two and you can have faster product cycles, and do FAR less testing (which explains the recent F*cked up OS 10.2 patch, the iTunes-upgrade-that-toasts-your-harddrive, etc).
                              The 10.2.8 patch caused a problem with ethernet on a specific model of G4 - hardly a mega problem. It was fixed within a week. I updated and nothing happened to me.

                              The itunes upgrade would only toast your hard drive if you performed some incredibly ridiculous sequence of operations and key presses.

                              Compare that with the hundreds of updates needed to fix Windows security problems (and this has little to do with the size of user base, as David Pogue had to embarassingly admit in a recent retraction in the NYT), these are minor hitches that affected a handful of people.

                              But the engine powering Aero has been shown to be working almost a year ago. Aero is simply the textures and layout of it.
                              I was deliberately poking fun at M$. I don't care whether or not it works since I don't and will never use Windows. I think it sucks that M$ is making you wait for something that other users have enjoyed for over three years now.

                              What you need to admit is that the evidence that Expose was pinched from MS is extremely thin and that Apple already had this working back in 99 (during the OS X Alpha release), so it's a stretch to accuse them of nicking it without further evidence.

                              This has become boring already. I mean find some better evidence. Last time it was from that guy who believed that pure bred dogs were the work of Nazis.
                              Only feebs vote.

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