Kyoto Dies

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Thas what I'm sayin'!

Ok.

[Az]

erm, excuse me, the stupid naive chemistry student, but how the hell woul hot salty water would be pushed down? shouldn't salt dissipate throughout the ocean?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Azazel
erm, excuse me, the stupid naive chemistry student, but how the hell woul hot salty water would be pushed down? shouldn't salt dissipate throughout the ocean?

If the warmer, saltier water is more dense, it will sink below water that is less dense.

[Japher]

My wife and I went to Mexico for vacation in June of this year... We went to the area south of cancun where they have Cenotes... Where the cool fresh ground water meets the hot salty ocean is very strange... The lightly salinated water stays above that of the ocean, you can actually see the barrier.

[Whaleboy]

Che is correct, it acts kinda like oil and water. Europe will experience something like the freeze for a few hundred years last millenium as the gulf stream cuts off, and Britain, being the same latitude as Alaska will become something of a tundra. However, as this means less flying insects, I wont complain!

Oerdin, what kinda temp change are we looking at in order to kill the gulf stream?

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by elijah
However, as this means less flying insects, I wont complain!

Apparently you aren't aware of the swarms of mosquitos and black flies. Some clouds are so thick they've been known to kill young elk and caribu. Plus, you'll get polar bears.

[Whaleboy]

Some clouds are so thick they've been known to kill young elk and caribu.

Just more of them together for me to take down with a can of deodourant and a lighter

Plus, you'll get polar bears

YAY!! They're so cute!

[Az]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


If the warmer, saltier water is more dense, it will sink below water that is less dense.

WTF? how does one part of the water remain salty one the other one remains fresh?

[Whaleboy]

Incidentally, solar changes will take effect over periods of time spanning millenia, and thats for changes like 1 degree C. The 11 year sunspot cycle is more or less irrelevant as luminosity remains pretty much constant as far as we are concerned and solar flares only effect the ionosphere and have little or no effect in the atmosphere proper.

[Whaleboy]

WTF? how does one part of the water remain salty one the other one remains fresh?

They don't really like to mix. You can try it, get some tap water in one glass, use food dye of one colour, and saline in another with a different colour. Pour them very gently together and hey presto... they'll separate out.

More of elijahs kitchen science soon....

[pchang]

mixing

mixing and dissipation of salt will occur, but it is not an instantaneous process. The dynamic nature of things will maintain some level of separation and barrier. Actually, I have a big problem with a lot of the science in both weather, global warming, and cosmology. This is because the underlying models being used are mostly static in nature. This is an oversimplication and discounts a lot of important effects. They use static models because the math is easier. They can't handle dynamic equations with large time dependent variables.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Azazel
erm, excuse me, the stupid naive chemistry student, but how the hell woul hot salty water would be pushed down? shouldn't salt dissipate throughout the ocean?

In my thinking it should but supposedly it can take a long time for water in currents to mix and the difference in salinity doesn't need to be to high. Also I imagine that as the warm water sinks it rapidly loses it's heat meaning that you no longer get as much heat transfered to the higher latitudes.

The theory goes that sink less tropical heat is transported north and south by ocean currents that we get a cooling effect in the far north and south.

[Japher]

They can't handle dynamic equations with large time dependent variables.

I wouldn't say "can't", yet it is difficult.

[Whaleboy]

cosmology

Tell me about it . Some dude was seriously in love with the word "homogenous".

The mixing will occur of course, but not before disrupting the gulf stream. It wont restart of its own accord, or at least its highly unlikely.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by elijah
Oerdin, what kinda temp change are we looking at in order to kill the gulf stream?

The $1 million question. The anwser is nobody knows for sure and they've been arguing about it since this theary was presented in the 1970's.