Kyoto Dies

[Whaleboy]

Go look on the internet, and see how many people here concur with that position.

Alternatively, I'd be happy to explain the mechanism of global warming, and how the other explanations for global warming are insufficient.

[Japher]

I'd like to hear some comments from the other side first

78% of statistics are made up on the spot

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Japher


78% of statistics are made up on the spot

That is 100% correct.

[Whaleboy]

So you think global warming is not a manmade phenomenon?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by elijah
So you think global warming is not a manmade phenomenon?

I'm not convinced it is, no. Isn't that a scream?

[Japher]

Go look on the internet, and see how many people here concur with that position.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Besides, not too long ago people said the world was flat - they were wrong. Not too long ago people said the moon was made of cheese and that we would never get to the moon - they were wrong.

Environmentalist are quacks. They will always cry foul before analysing the facts, and even then they will misconstrue the facts in their favor. Whether it is intentionally or not is up for you to decide.

CO2 is up. Big whoop! Could it be the increase in people on the planet? Deforestation? The number of cows?

Temperatures are up. Oh no! It must be due to emissions. As far as I know the winds determine the temperatures in specific reasons. As deforestation and other erosional conditions continue the winds change causing a seemingly increase or decrease in temperatures..

The problem does not lie in industrial nations. The solution or short term fix may lie in these nations, but that still won't stop the bleeding. Seeing how most of the deforestation occurs in S. America, best we hollar at them instead of Russia and the US...

So, people "interpreting" facts is one thing. Misreading the facts is another, and has happened many times with all these environmental quacks. "I have been measuring the ocean temperature around Seattle, and low and behold it has risen!" Of course we aren't going to take into account that a brewry opened up down the way and is dumping it's water into the ocean illegally again for those 6 months of readings!

On top of people who mis-interpret and mis-read facts you also have the doomsdayist. Those who marvel at Nostradumbass, have bunker in their backyard, and fear the great quake that will end us all... Even these "impartial" idiots can be called scientists. Yet, no one has ever bothered to check out their methods which may involve a medal dector and a hat made of tin foil...

What am I saying?

Environmentalist don't know what they are talking about, and generally resort to whinning instead of addressing either the problem or the solution.

If they really wanted to tackle something of note they should bother themsleves with water polution, watersheds, and erosion issues. These things, not air polution, will be the downfall of man...

Just my two-cents...

[Caligastia]

Thanks for that Japher.

[Giant_Squid]

Japher, that seems to me like a pretty dangerous way of ignoring anything your political opponents say. Yes, a lot of environmentalists will seize on anything they can use, but just like the old phrase that "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you", just because something fits the political agenda of your opponents doesn't mean it has to be untrue. If I were you I would look up the scientific research done on this phenomenon rather than dismissing it all as stupid scientists who don't know what they're doing without reading their studies. Some of the scientists doing the research are definitely not radical environmentalists - many are people who scoffed at global warming before but now have changed their minds after new evidence has come in. I could give you links, but since apparently the Internet is apparently infested with the liberal conspiracy to hide the truth and therefore not a valid source, go check out a book or something.
Or go talk to the Kiribatians, many of whom are now underwater (yes, I realize that saying global warming exists is different from saying humans cause it, but your brewery example seems to imply you doubt both points)

PS: Winds? Causing temperature? We're talking about long-term global temperature here, which is more a function of how much sunlight hits the Earth.

PPS: Maybe the reason we're ignoring all this deforestation is that people keep saying environmentalists are self-serving quacks, eh?

[Japher]

Ahem, Giant Squid.

I did not say that Global Warming does not exist (though I am sceptical), I am just saying that the cause is not adequatly identified. Why is the cause not adequatly identified? - that is the source of my sceptisim.

Measure the average increase of the ocean is one way I have seem them attempt to prove this. Well measure 5 different spots for 5 years and draw conclusions... Guess what, that means nothing to the average temperature of something that covers 2/3rds of the eart which has been around for eons!

I think environmentalists need to develop better global indicators, take a better look at naturalistic cycles (of which there is very little data on), and better identify the problem before the begin to claim the sky is falling.

Remember in the 80s and early 90s when everyone was hollaring about the ozone and that if we don't stop using hairspray we will all be burned to crisp? The, you remember the whole thing fading away when someone mentioned that the increase and decrease of the hole in the ozone is natural phenomena?

Well, global warming is the ozone of the 00s...

We can't walk across sand without leaving footprints.

[chequita guevara]

It's not environmentalists doing the measuring. It's scientists. And the President's own scientists have compiled a report which says it's real and its our fault. And this President is very anti that kind of thing.

[Odin]

The earth is nearing the end of an interglacial, so the temperature increase couldn't possibly be natural.

[Japher]

I like how Che backs the Bush administration when he sees fit, yet when he doesn't agree Bush is a liar and his information is erroneous... Yet, that is a two way street

The earth is nearing the end of an interglacial, so the temperature increase couldn't possibly be natural

And we know this how? Oh, that's right speculation. Seeing as no one was around the last time an interglacial period ended...

Sheesh. I'm not arguing that it exists, I am arguing it's causation. I would be interested in seeing them reports of ol' Georgies...

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Japher
I like how Che backs the Bush administration when he sees fit, yet when he doesn't agree Bush is a liar and his information is erroneous

Actually, they suppressed the report. Members of the committee raised high holy hell, however, and let the country know what was in it and why it was suppressed.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Saint Marcus
Putin is stupid. Russia is well BELOW Kyoto emmision levels, and he could make a good profit selling the left over poluting-room to other countries.

The projections were that Russia would do well for the first 5-10 years and then end up oweing money after that. That doesn't even count the lost foreign investment.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Odin
The earth is nearing the end of an interglacial, so the temperature increase couldn't possibly be natural.

Actually we're still coming off the end of a glacial period.