Behavioural manipulation

[Urban Ranger]

Alinestra Covelia's thread got me thinking about behavioural manipulation, which I will broadly define as

actions a person, group, or nation intentionally undertake to induce a change in the behaviour of a target, so as to effect conducts or attitudes more favourable to the originator.

So defined, many of our actions are indeed behavioural manipulations. For example, two companies negotiating on a contract, each trying to obtain the most favourable terms possible for its own side. Another example, the guy described in Ali's thread, who carried out a sequence of actions to get in the girl's pants. Yet another example, Christians proselytising to nonbelievers. Final example, US's ongoing embargo on Cuba.

The question is, where do you draw the line? When will behavioural manipulation become unethical? Sure, it's easy to tell when such actions are at the extreme ends of the spectrum, so most people will agree that terrorism is unethical - this is not a thread to discuss whether terrorism is ethical or not, if you want to, start your own thread. Still, there is a very large grey area in the middle. Is it ethical to take advantage of a situation, like trying to win a woman's heart during a moment of her weakness? If so, it is ethical to create such a moment of weakness? Is it ethical to push for a harder deal when you got wind of the other side's financial troubles? Is it ethical to create such financial troubles?

Should behavioural manipulation be judged by the means, the ends, both, or some other combination of factors?

[pchang]

See B. F. Skinner.

[Q Classic]

yes.

[Asmodean]

You mean this Skinner:

There once was a young man named Skinner
Who invited a fair lass to dinner.
At a quarter to nine they sat down to dine;
At a quarter to ten it was in her.
(The dinner, not Skinner;
Skinner was in her before dinner!)

Asmodean

[Asmodean]

A variation of the above:

There once was a young man named Tupper
Who invited a fair lass to supper
At a quarter to nine they sat down to dine
At a quarter to ten it was in her
Not the supper, Not Tupper
But an intruding young whelp named Skinner

Asmodean

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by pchang
See B. F. Skinner.

I thougt this behaviourism stuff about "programmed instruction" is a bit outdated?

[BeBMan]

Re: Behavioural manipulation

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Alinestra Covelia's thread got me thinking about behavioural manipulation, which I will broadly define as

actions a person, group, or nation intentionally undertake to induce a change in the behaviour of a target, so as to effect conducts or attitudes more favourable to the originator.

So defined, many of our actions are indeed behavioural manipulations. For example, two companies negotiating on a contract, each trying to obtain the most favourable terms possible for its own side. Another example, the guy described in Ali's thread, who carried out a sequence of actions to get in the girl's pants. Yet another example, Christians proselytising to nonbelievers. Final example, US's ongoing embargo on Cuba.

This is indeed a very broad definition - then even a crying child that hasn´t got his toy would manipulate his parents (to buy the toy). This is no critcism but I personally wouldn´t count all these things as manipulation. For me manipulation implies that the "target person" (or group/whatever) doesn´t know (at least not fully) what´s going on.

So IMO, a man promising a woman everything only to sleep with her is manipulation. Edit: wen he tries to give the impression that he loves her.

Economic negotiatons or political pressure is not (in that general view) IMO when both sides know the goals of eachother, and the means that the other side is going to use. (Doesn´t mean there cannot be actions I´d see as unethical there too)

[BeBMan]

Re: Re: Behavioural manipulation

wrong button

[Cruddy]

Re: Behavioural manipulation

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

The question is, where do you draw the line? When will behavioural manipulation become unethical

I draw the line at blackmail towards a violent end.

Mind you, it depends who I'm attempting to blackmail.

Also, there is a difference between coercion (that doesn't look spelled right) and influence. Influence can bring about a change of attitude within the party - coercion is all about dictating an attitude or solution.

[SlowwHand]

See Pavlov's dog.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
See Pavlov's dog.

I am not talking about conditional reflexes. Go pick your pool table all ready

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Re: Behavioural manipulation

Originally posted by BeBro
For me manipulation implies that the "target person" (or group/whatever) doesn´t know (at least not fully) what´s going on.

That looks like a good limitation to put on.

[SlowwHand]

I don't know why you have to be so mean to me.

[pchang]

Originally posted by BeBro


I thougt this behaviourism stuff about "programmed instruction" is a bit outdated?

It's not outdated if it still works.

[BeBMan]

But it doesn´t work (ok, it can work under certain conditions) Humans are no simple input/output thingies.