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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ramo
    1. It sure doesn't seem reasonable to me. If I were an Iraqi, I'd like to be kept informed about what the hell is going on. I don't want the gov't to bully papers into stopping covering what the Ba'athist resistance is saying just because the gov't is paranoid.
    2. It's a taste of things to come. Look at the actual press restrictions. Obviously they're overly broad and could be easily misused. Which seems likely given the authorities' little stunt with regards to the union of the unemployed.
    First it would help if you followed international affairs enough to know that Al jazeera is a TV network, NOT a newspaper. For one it just makes you sound uninformed. For another it matters to the issue at hand. Theyre not banning news outlets that told ABOUT the Saddam tape - just ones that actually play the Saddam tape.

    IIUC you can get in trouble in Germany today for displaying Nazi regalia. Does that make Germany "totalitarian"?

    If they were playing rough they would have just tossed Al - jazeera and al - arabiya out of the country - thats what just about any other country in the arab world would do. That they didnt shows that they are well, democrats ....
    "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Ramo
      Tad bit totalitarian = a little totalitarian. I don't mean the occupation is Nazi Germany.
      Totalitarian - from the english word total. Implying not partial, but total, complete.

      A little bit total, is like being "a little bit" absolute, or a little bit perfect. It doesnt make sense.

      There are other words for what youre trying to say. Go look them up.
      "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

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      • #18
        That was a bit patronizing, wasn't it?
        urgh.NSFW

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        • #19
          First it would help if you followed international affairs enough to know that Al jazeera is a TV network, NOT a newspaper. For one it just makes you sound uninformed.

          I assumed they printed too since I'd imagine satellite TV is not too easy to come by in Iraq. So I might be wrong, BFD.

          For another it matters to the issue at hand. Theyre not banning news outlets that told ABOUT the Saddam tape - just ones that actually play the Saddam tape.
          Yes they are.
          "mean Iraqi or foreign press and television news organisations can be closed if they "advocate the return of the Baath party or issue any statements that represent the Baath directly or indirectly [sic]"."

          IIUC you can get in trouble in Germany today for displaying Nazi regalia. Does that make Germany "totalitarian"?
          The German gov't isn't doing that to insure they stay in power, so no.

          If they were playing rough they would have just tossed Al - jazeera and al - arabiya out of the country - thats what just about any other country in the arab world would do. That they didnt shows that they are well, democrats ....
          They have the power to do just that. That they didn't do that the first day the press restrictions have come into play doesn't mean anything (and I think it's clear that there's an agenda within the council to do just that as indicated by the initial policy).
          Last edited by Ramo; September 26, 2003, 17:23.
          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
          -Bokonon

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Azazel
            That was a bit patronizing, wasn't it?
            "totally" deserved.

            Shana tova u metukah.
            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

            Comment

            • #21
              Totalitarian - from the english word total. Implying not partial, but total, complete.

              A little bit total, is like being "a little bit" absolute, or a little bit perfect. It doesnt make sense.

              There are other words for what youre trying to say. Go look them up.
              Do you know what a literary device is? Or sarcasm. Go **** yourself.
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

              Comment

              • #22
                I assumed they printed too since I'd imagine satellite TV is not too easy to come by in Iraq. So I might be wrong, BFD.


                a little factoid:
                you ARE wrong. sat dishes are everywhere around the ME.
                urgh.NSFW

                Comment

                • #23
                  Ok, how 'bout dealing with the actual argument instead of attacking minor facts irrelevent to the thread or taking literary devices out of context? Let's review:

                  Iraqi or foreign press and television news organisations can be closed if they "advocate the return of the Baath party or issue any statements that represent the Baath directly or indirectly [sic]".
                  Clearly the governing council wants the power to close press that reports all available news on the Ba'athists, even if it hasn't used this power yet.

                  Within two hours, news emerged that the two Arabic-language channels would be punished for their alleged transgressions by being refused all co-operation from the "interim council" for two weeks--a punishment many journalists here would wish to have inflicted on them.
                  Two major TV orgs are currently being bullied into doing this, including the primary Arabic TV station.
                  "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                  -Bokonon

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Ramo
                    1. It sure doesn't seem reasonable to me. If I were an Iraqi, I'd like to be kept informed about what the hell is going on. I don't want the gov't to bully papers into stopping covering what the Ba'athist resistance is saying just because the gov't is paranoid.
                    2. It's a taste of things to come. Look at the actual press restrictions. Obviously they're overly broad and could be easily misused. Which seems likely given the authorities' little stunt with regards to the union of the unemployed.
                    the union of the unemployed? I missed that. what is it? what happens if u dont give into their demands? will they go on strike??!?

                    Comment

                    • #25
                      An organization that was trying to pressure the occupation authorities into hiring Iraqi companies with Iraqi workers friendly to unions for reconstruction instead of bringing in US companies that are completely anti-union and bring in foreign workers to minimize labor standards. When they peacefully protested in front of a ministry, their leaders were arrested after they refused to stop the protest.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment

                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ramo
                        An organization that was trying to pressure the occupation authorities into hiring Iraqi companies with Iraqi workers friendly to unions for reconstruction instead of bringing in US companies that are completely anti-union and bring in foreign workers to minimize labor standards. When they peacefully protested in front of a ministry, their leaders were arrested after they refused to stop the protest.
                        whats wrong w/ anti union? should a company want to pay more than it has to? I wouldn't have arrested him. but I hardly see the big deal w/ the US wanting to keep unions out. we are probably dreading what we have to pay already. unions cut both ways. if we let a union in and they jack us w/ a strike what then?

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                        • #27
                          Then good for them. If we don't want unions, we should drop the pretense of bringing democracy to Iraq. Likewise if we can't tolerate peaceful protest, we should drop the pretense of bringing democracy.
                          "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                          -Bokonon

                          Comment

                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ramo
                            Then good for them. If we don't want unions, we should drop the pretense of bringing democracy to Iraq. Likewise if we can't tolerate peaceful protest, we should drop the pretense of bringing democracy.
                            u r confusing western social values w/ democracy. there is nothing inherent in democracy that demands a union. so get off your damn horse.

                            when they can vote they can pass legislation that allows unions. then everyone will be happy.

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                            • #29
                              Sure there is. Unions are the basis of a free society. Worker and non-worker organization is a prerequisite for a free society. Economic self-determination is a fundamental right.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

                              Comment

                              • #30
                                You're confusing real democracy with a kleptocracy that has elections.
                                "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                                -Bokonon

                                Comment

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