Let's arrest the NASA criminals.

[TCO]

NYT is free to sign up for. Can't beleive Ming hasn't done that yet...

[Ned]

Re: Re: Let's arrest the NASA criminals.

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Nice troll, but precisely what crime was committed, and explain how their conduct in the context of their employment was not privileged?

I am somewhat venting my feelings here, but the conduct of the NASA managers was far more than negligent. The Times article points out management wilfully ignored the pleas of the engineers for photos or for a look out the window at the wing despite repeated attempts.

NASA management had a legal duty to protect the lives of the seven astronauts. They intentionally did not carry out that duty leading to the deaths of the seven. This has to be criminal is some respect.

[MichaeltheGreat]

First, they're acting in their context as government employees.

Second, legal duties get all muddy in areas where you get into professional judgment.

Firing a lot of them wholesale, from the top down - yeah. Prosecution? Wouldn't have a chance of success.

Frankly, I'm more interested in fixing the problem than the blame, though, so figuring out who to punish and for what is way less interesting to me than getting the shuttle program on it's feet until a replacement manned flight and supply program can get off the ground.

[TCO]

Fixing the problem requires correcting a culture. A few firings will be quite a help there. it's more about the example than the individual correction. More about inducing accountability in the others, by some **** chopping off.

[TCO]

BTW, I read the entire report. Talked to one of the people involved in preparing it. Same with the 1986 incident.

[Ned]

What would happen if these same people had been in the military, had wilfully failed to look at intelligence and as a result soldiers under their command were killed. For Gods sake, it seems every time something like this happens, there is at least a court marshall and perhaps a criminal trial.

[Whaleboy]

It burned up on my 18th birthday

[MichaeltheGreat]

MI and command failures happen all the ****ing time, all the way up to the top.

Marine barracks in Beirut, 1983 - permission to install dragon's teeth barriers at the airport denied in Washington, by one of SecDef staff.

TF Ranger in Mogadishu, 1993, access to AC130 Spectre gunships and M2 IFV's for ground extraction denied by SecDef.

507th Maintenance Coy and the Marines who tried to rescue them, 20043 - CSS troops moving through unsecured area on a route not marked or actively patrolled.

Hell, the only times there are court-martials, let alone holding higher civilian authority responsible, which is essentially never done, is if either the press or some foreign government we vaguely have a use for gets bent out of shape.

Even My Lai - do you really, honest to God think that Bill Calley was the only SOB up or down the line of command who was criminally responsible?

For that matter, you could go back to your hero MacArthur and his so-called G2, Willoughby, and nail them to the wall for not only active refusal to help Fertig in the Phillipines, but for even refusing to report that they'd received communcation from someone claiming to be an American officer who'd organized irregular US and Phillipine forces to resist the Japanese. That alone should have had both MacArthur and Willoughby relieved and court-martialled, no need to even get into issues in Korea.

[TCO]

They should lose their jobs. NR is the model.

[Ned]

MtG, all this shows is that the military typically does not prosecute its own for command screwups. However, in the case of the sub that surfaced under the Japanese boat, a few years ago, the captain was prosecuted. But this involved the deaths of foreign civilians, not his own crewmen. This means that there is jurisdiction for criminal prosecutions for deaths caused by gross negligence.

[Straybow]

Almost any time there is a collision at sea you are likely to find a court martial of whoever is in command of the offending vessel.

The shuttle missions are, in effect, commanded from the ground. If the shuttle commander had requested imagery I wonder if the ground controllers would have acquiesced.

[Ned]

Straybow, that clearly is because everyone knows that collisions at sea normally do not happen without gross negligence from the captain. In the case of this shuttle, the deaths were not caused by some random event or negligence, but by the deliberate malfeasance of a group of NASA managers. Since NASA has no court marshall procedures, the most they can do is fire the concerned individuals. However Congress should demand that the Atty. General prosecute any and all criminally responsible for the deaths of the seven.

[Tingkai]

So Ned, who do want charged?

Rocha? Sounds like he tried damn hard to get something done.

Schomburg? He made a decision based on his past professional experience that turned out to be wrong. How was that criminal negligence?

The Boeing engineers because they analyzed the situation and made a mistake?

The managers who listened to advice from Boeing engineers and Schomburg rather than Rocha?

Where exactly is the criminal negligence?

[Ned]

Anyone who decided to ignore the NASA engineers. The private contractor should be sued for negligence. I am sure the families of the seven are already suing. Clearly, they will win and collect millions, justifiably, I might add.