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Arafat diverted $900 million says the IMF

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  • #31
    Re: Arafat diverted $900 million says the IMF

    Originally posted by Vesayen

    Before you scream this is the international Jewish conspiracy or "biased media/organization" etc-as EVERY pro-palestinian person seems to scream, THE IMF IS AN ORGANIZATION RUN BY THE U.N. ITSELF(who always seems to side with the arab world in regards to Israel) so dont scream bias and that the article is invented.
    I don't know where you got that idea from, but a cursory check of the facts would blow your claim right out of the water. The IMF has no relation to the UN Whatsoever; it runs itself. Take a look at this if you want more detail.

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    • #32
      "There is a huge crowd over here that wants to nuke the damn Saudis"

      Because of their corruption?

      As long as the Saudis play the swing producer for the oil market and are top customers of the US arms industry, they have political protection - velvet goves treatment at worst - in the US even for sponsoring terrorism. The idea that the authoritarian, human rights violating and totally corrupt nature of the regime would bother Washington in any way is ridiculous.

      "I am wondering on what basis and with what evidence you are accussing the Israeli Prime Minister of corruption."

      Campaign financing and David Appel. Doesn't ring a bell?
      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

      Comment

      • #33
        I guess the big issue that nobody seems to care about is that somehow, these "poor oppressed" people have access to weapons, explosives, and obviously a large backing of money. Once again, the leaders (arafat mainly) have access to lots of money while the people suffer. The Pal's need to rise up and overthrow these militant elements if they ever want to have peace. Israel can't and won't stand by while their citizens keep getting blown up. I don't blame Israel for taking a hardline stance against this terrorism. God knows I'd nuke the West Bank if I were Sharon. The only solution to this conflict is in the hands of the Palestinian people. They must decide terrorism and violence isn't the way.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

        Comment

        • #34
          Originally posted by HershOstropoler
          Campaign financing and David Appel. Doesn't ring a bell?
          Last I heard no one had been convicted of any thing.
          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

          Comment

          • #35
            "Last I heard no one had been convicted of any thing."

            Last I heard no one had been convicted of any thing in the PA.
            “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

            Comment

            • #36
              Originally posted by HershOstropoler
              "Last I heard no one had been convicted of any thing."

              Last I heard no one had been convicted of any thing in the PA.

              No surprise there.
              "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

              Comment

              • #37
                Q

                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                "There is a huge crowd over here that wants to nuke the damn Saudis"

                Because of their corruption?
                Because of
                1. Their alleged support for Al Qaeeda, or at least winking at private support for AQ.
                2. Their support for extremist anti-westrern forms of Islam around the world.
                3. Their support for Hamas.
                4. Their corrupt, un-democratic domestic system, which is held by some to breed Islamic extremism.

                Defenses of the Saudis -
                1. It is claimed they have been cooperating on AQ since 9/11, though they have been quiet about it
                2. It is fairly widely beleived that they have been cracking down since the May bombing in Riyadh - there are reports of regular gun battles, arrests, etc.
                3. They were relatively cooperative on the Iraq war
                4. They have been hemming and hawing about Hamas, no worse than some of our European friends.
                5. They are talking about doing something about Wahabite incitement
                6. It is claimed that if the house of Saud goes, fundie pro AQ types will take over.

                So the debate goes on.
                6.
                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                Comment

                • #38
                  Of course no one is claiming that Arafat should be removed for corruption alone. The claim is that he should be removed for supporting terrorism. This is the Bush doctrine, ennunciated in regard to Mullah Omar, that those who support and shelter terrorists are the equivalents of those who carry it out. No exception to this doctrine was stated for elected leaders. As long as tolerating Arafat was considered necessary to a viable peace process, that concern trumped the Bush doctrine. Now it is claimed by some that Arafat is in fact an obstacle to any viable peace process, so that concern no longer applies. Corruption just confirms the nature of Arafat, and adds weight to the considerations.
                  "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    and how is in this whole peace program the current us governement (which is i am sure totally uncorrupt) not an obstacle ?
                    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Originally posted by dannubis
                      and how is in this whole peace program the current us governement (which is i am sure totally uncorrupt) not an obstacle ?
                      To what? War?
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        i was just pointing out that in the current situation the us involvement in the middle east is as much an obstacle to peace as the presence of arafat is ...
                        "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Yeah damn those people coming up with multilateral road maps for peace!
                          I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                          For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            No US = Peace

                            Without US interference in the Middle East, there would probably be peace by now. Full out open warfare would have erupted long ago and by now, one side or the other would have completely wiped the other out. Another likely result would be that Israel nukes its neighbors as its army is pushed into the sea. There are plenty of ways to achieve peace:
                            1 side gets a total victory
                            both sides kill each other and there is no one left
                            both sides agree to stop killing
                            “It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”

                            ― C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man​

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Re: Q

                              Originally posted by lord of the mark


                              Because of
                              1. Their alleged support for Al Qaeeda, or at least winking at private support for AQ.
                              2. Their support for extremist anti-westrern forms of Islam around the world.
                              3. Their support for Hamas.
                              4. Their corrupt, un-democratic domestic system, which is held by some to breed Islamic extremism.

                              Defenses of the Saudis -
                              1. It is claimed they have been cooperating on AQ since 9/11, though they have been quiet about it
                              2. It is fairly widely beleived that they have been cracking down since the May bombing in Riyadh - there are reports of regular gun battles, arrests, etc.
                              3. They were relatively cooperative on the Iraq war
                              4. They have been hemming and hawing about Hamas, no worse than some of our European friends.
                              5. They are talking about doing something about Wahabite incitement
                              6. It is claimed that if the house of Saud goes, fundie pro AQ types will take over.

                              So the debate goes on.
                              6.
                              Summary: corruption has never bothered a US administration. Unless the French use it to snap contracts from well connected US companies.
                              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lord of the mark
                                Of course no one is claiming that Arafat should be removed for corruption alone. The claim is that he should be removed for supporting terrorism. This is the Bush doctrine, ennunciated in regard to Mullah Omar, that those who support and shelter terrorists are the equivalents of those who carry it out.
                                Yeah it's a nice idea. Leadership vacuum with the palestinians, Arafat in exile as the palestinian hero... what better opportunity than this to expand Israeli settlements?
                                “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                                Comment

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