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**Jack_www** · September 16, 2003, 14:53

Originally posted by Agathon

No - the PC has double the Ghz rating, that doesn't mean it is twice as fast. My lowly imac is faster than intels with twice its clockspeed. After all a 2 Ghz G5 will smoke any Pentium.

You can get more software for a PC, but you can run Windows on a mac using virtual PC (now from MS!) anyway.

Sure it does. I use to buy into that a long time ago when I had a mac. I like macs but they are more expensive then a pc, slower, and have less software then a pc. Also most computer users use Windows.

When you run virtual PC, the programs run slower then on a PC, and you are paying for two operating systems when you can get a PC and just pay for one.

**Jack_www** · September 16, 2003, 14:55

Also Asher has posted many threads showing that Macs are indeed slower then PC computers.

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 14:55

On the dell, I went to the customize page and added until I could get as close as I could to the apple. I also added digital and music software (which is free with an apple)

its monitor is 0.2 inches larger, and the waranttee is longer.

The apple's DDR is faster

When I finished, the PC was at $2447.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V418&l=en&oc=8500CS&s=dhs

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 14:58

BUt the PC is twice as fast as the apple processors, and you can get way more software on a pc.

Its twice as fast, but the G4's processor has a larger L2 cache and twice the bandwith. Just image two firehoses. If one is larger then the other by a factor of two, it only needs half the pressure then the smaller one to get the same amount of water out.

**Jack_www** · September 16, 2003, 14:58

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
On the dell, I went to the customize page and added until I could get as close as I could to the apple. I also added digital and music software (which is free with an apple)

its monitor is 0.2 inches larger, and the waranttee is longer.

The apple's DDR is faster

When I finished, the PC was at $2447.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...c=8500CS&s=dhs

When I clicked on the link it does not show what you did. It is on the defalt specs.

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 14:59

and btw, the only area in software that macs lag in is games. Microsoft, Adobe, all make apple versions of their software

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 15:01

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**Agathon** · September 16, 2003, 15:14

Originally posted by Jack_www
Also Asher has posted many threads showing that Macs are indeed slower then PC computers.

No, what Asher has posted is the most prejudiced stuff he can find on the net which shows that Macs are slower, since he has a pathological hatred of non Wintel machines. Even the people whose opinions he posts aren't as extreme as him.

If you want PC vs. Mac stuff don't take his advice: ask someone else on the forum - someone whose prejudices aren't so extreme. Look I like macs but I advise people to use them only if they like the OS - that's the main attraction.

The high end G4s are slower than the high end Pentiums - that is a fact, but the G5 is faster than all of them. It's not all about the processor clock speed though, you'll get nice performance from a Powerbook and it's a lovely machine to look at and to use (esp the 17 inch PB).

**Asher** · September 16, 2003, 17:01

Once Apple can match IBM's unconditoinal loss/theft/accidental breakage overnight-replacement guarantee, let me know.

Also let me know if that PowerBook can hit the 7h per battery mine can.

And the 1.5GHz Pentium Ms run circles around the 1.25 G4s.

No diversity wireless antennas like the IBMs?

And cheapass aluminum casing? Where's the titanium, baby?

And no harddrive shock absorber? Pfft.

Plus it's a good pound heavier than mine.

**Asher** · September 16, 2003, 17:04

Originally posted by Agathon
No, what Asher has posted is the most prejudiced stuff he can find on the net which shows that Macs are slower, since he has a pathological hatred of non Wintel machines. Even the people whose opinions he posts aren't as extreme as him.

Please -- the only stuff you believe is the crap from Apple.

You look at the official SPEC benchmarks, the IBM benchmarks, the NASA benchmarks -- the G5 is slower than the Pentium 4 and Athlon XP, not to mention the Athlon 64 and Pentium 5.

**Asher** · September 16, 2003, 17:13

I have to dash off to class in a few mins, so this will do for now.

From NASA's benchmarks (that Cloud9 -- a Mac advocate first linked to). I'd like for you to explain to me how NASA is "prejudiced".

http://members.cox.net/craig.hunter/g5/

Here you see a single 2.66GHz P4 (based on an OLD core -- 533MHz system bus instead of 800MHz) edging out a 2GHz G5 system.

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 18:15

Once Apple can match IBM's unconditoinal loss/theft/accidental breakage overnight-replacement guarantee, let me know.

Also let me know if that PowerBook can hit the 7h per battery mine can.

And the 1.5GHz Pentium Ms run circles around the 1.25 G4s.

No diversity wireless antennas like the IBMs?

And cheapass aluminum casing? Where's the titanium, baby?

And no harddrive shock absorber? Pfft.

Plus it's a good pound heavier than mine.

Which laptop do you have Asher? Sony Viao?

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 18:19

I'm only asking because I'm interested in what sort of monitor you have. If its a tiny 10 incher or a larger 15 inch. If it has internal DVD and CD player and DVD and CD burner. If it has FireWire 800 or FireWire 400. If it has bluetooth. If its got a backlit keyboard, 80 GB of harddrive, 512 RAM which can be expanded to 2 GBs, all of it internal.

**Lawrence of Arabia** · September 16, 2003, 18:25

btw, from that link that Asher supplied

Introduction

This paper describes testing conducted by NASA Langley Research Center during an evaluation of a PowerMac G5 system for computational fluid dynamics (CFD) simulation. Preliminary evaluations are conducted in Part I of this two-part document. In this phase of testing, an existing version of the NASA Jet3D [1] code (developed and compiled on G4 systems) was run on a G5 system without any re-compilation or additional optimization. As G5-specific FORTRAN compiler tools have not yet been released, this is both appropriate and a reality. In Part II of this document, G5-specific testing will be conducted as revised compiler tools become available. In addition, testing will be expanded to include other NASA CFD codes.

Which means its possible that the G5 is faster then what they found.

The primary purpose of this test is to determine how G5 performance compares to G4 performance in CFD applications.

Conclusion

The primary purpose of this test was to determine how G5 scalar floating point performance compares to G4 performance in CFD applications. As a secondary part of this test, G4 and G5 benchmark results were compared to similar results obtained on Pentium 4 systems. Overall, the scalar floating point performance of G5 systems is much improved over G4 systems due to better per clock cycle efficiency combined with higher clock speeds. Based on preliminary testing with an existing version of Jet3D (not recompiled or optimized for the G5), it appears that the G5 has about 22% better scalar floating point performance per clock cycle than the G4 systems tested and 32% better floating point performance per clock cycle than the P4 systems tested

This test tested scalar floating point comparisons, and does not test vector floating point.

**Imran Siddiqui** · September 16, 2003, 18:26

I'm pretty sure that from what he wrote, it's an IBM Thinkpad, LoA

.

And I prefer my Dell laptop over Apple

.

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