Trouble in Michigan

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by SpencerH
Gee! He violated a judges order. Disobeyed a zoning law. Wow public enemy no.1 ! I guess where you and some of the others live nobody ever defied an unjust law before.

What's unjust about a local law saying you have to get the proper zoning for the proper structures on property? Again, what if he wanted to build a missile silo?

His buildings weren't up to code, and one wasn't even residential--it was an old mobile school room! Do you think a township doesn't have a right to enforce building and zoning codes? Oh, yes, let's just let anyone build any asbestos-laden building they want!

Nobody made him public enemy no. 1 but himself. He's the one taking up arms and threatening the lives of law enforcement officials who will come to carry out a judge's orders. He made this predicament, first by knowingly violating the law, and then by being a lunatic about it.

Even if he believes the law is unjust, that doesn't justify his taking up arms and threatening law enforcement officials. That's why there are civic means for addressing unjust laws, such as referenda. If he thinks the law is unjust, he should contact sympathetic organization and sue.

Not that he would get very far, since as was pointed out in the article, EVERY township and district has such zoning codes, and they are accepted as legal in the U.S.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Wow, right-wingers supporting trailer trash. In Europe, that is a leftist thing.

When reading this thread in closer detail, I understand that the trailer-trash is actually a land owner defending his rights to do whatever he wants in his own garden. In that case, he has my full support. OK, perhaps not to build missile silos, but build a new loo, set up a gypsy encampment or whatever he wishes.

[Harry Seldon]

It being his land doesn't give him a right to do whatever he wants with it. What if he wanted to build his own nuclear reactor?

Well, maybe then his diabolical scheme to control the world could come to fruition!

A portable classroom is just a fancy name for a trailer. A trailer is another way of saying mobile home. It may be a stretch but I'd buy it as a judge.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Wow, right-wingers supporting trailer trash. In Europe, that is a leftist thing.

In the US hillbillies like these guys are mostly conservative because they are so ignorant and uneducated and think the right to bear arms is holy. These wackos also tend to be super-religious nut cases.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon
A portable classroom is just a fancy name for a trailer. A trailer is another way of saying mobile home. It may be a stretch but I'd buy it as a judge.

A portable classroom is not up to code to be residential. Have you ever built a house in the U.S.? If not, I'd suggest checking out zoning basics first. Anyone who builds a home has to adhere to fairly stringent zoning rules. If this guy doesn't like the zoning rules, he can challenge them in a civil manner. When he starts digging trenches and breaking out the guns, he's become an A-1 nutball who is a danger to himself and others.

[Harry Seldon]

When he starts digging trenches and breaking out the guns, he's become an A-1 nutball who is a danger to himself and others.

Only if they come on his land.

Anyone who builds a home has to adhere to fairly stringent zoning rules.

True, but I've also seen some pretty shady rezoning around these parts in the past and this whole ordeal smacks of this.

[Shi Huangdi]

DOWnw with the redneckes!!!

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

What's unjust about a local law saying you have to get the proper zoning for the proper structures on property? Again, what if he wanted to build a missile silo?

His buildings weren't up to code, and one wasn't even residential--it was an old mobile school room! Do you think a township doesn't have a right to enforce building and zoning codes? Oh, yes, let's just let anyone build any asbestos-laden building they want!

Nobody made him public enemy no. 1 but himself. He's the one taking up arms and threatening the lives of law enforcement officials who will come to carry out a judge's orders. He made this predicament, first by knowingly violating the law, and then by being a lunatic about it.

Even if he believes the law is unjust, that doesn't justify his taking up arms and threatening law enforcement officials. That's why there are civic means for addressing unjust laws, such as referenda. If he thinks the law is unjust, he should contact sympathetic organization and sue.

Not that he would get very far, since as was pointed out in the article, EVERY township and district has such zoning codes, and they are accepted as legal in the U.S.

There can be lots wrong with a zoning law, just as there was with the illegal entrapment of Randy Weaver that precipitated court orders against him and the subsequent debacle at Ruby Ridge. Its not like he lives in Manhatten. He may live 50 miles from town where he should be able to live in a teepee if he wants. We dont know the facts and IMO you're jumping to conclusions.

[MattH]

I have no problem with him protesting- I don't think anyone does. But when he threatens to harm people, he's gone waaaaayyy to far.

[SpencerH]

He's said he'll protect his property. A protest about a (possibly) unfair law and 4 trailers on 4 acres on land in the outback of Minnesota is hardly gonna attract the attention of the ACLU is it?

[Lincoln]

The supposed right of a community to fashion zoninng laws as they see fit often runs contrary to other established rights. The zoning laws need to conform to the right to private property. If there has been a long train of abuses of individual liberties by way of zoning laws then someone needs to stand up against it. These laws are regularly abused to take people's property at the whim of powerful people within local governments. Calling this guy "trailer trash" because he is not rich and powerful helps his case in my opinion. On the other hand, maybe he is just a rebellious nut. Who know at this point?

[Sarxis]

There's a place in Roscommon in MI called 'Tent City'- its basically squatters in tents and trailers living on this lot of land there. Not up to code, and definately not wanted by the local 'law abiders' since its an eye-sore.

My aunt lives near there.

[David Floyd]

Boris just cut to the only relevant point in this case:

It being his land doesn't give him a right to do whatever he wants with it.

Oh yes it does. It's his personal, private property and he's not hurting anyone.

[dexters]

The Aug 31st Edition of the Economists had a lengthy article discussing the decline of right-wing anti-government militias in the US.

Those interested should seek out their local libraries or where they may have back copies of The Economist.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon
You mean it's not entrapment to ask someone repeatedly to break the law by sawing off a shotgun too short?

The real issue with Weaver is that he was given an incorrect appearance date (by a month) on HIS copy of the Federal court papers. Whether he would have appeared or not is another question entirely, but when the Feds issued an arrest warrant and decided to cowboy it, Weaver had no idea what might be coming because he thought his court appearance (from the court's own document copies given him) was still a few weeks in the future.

IIRC, it was later established that the Feds found out about the date discrepancy, but went ahead with the raid anyway, on the theory that Weaver was supposed to have verified the appearance date with the clerk of the court, regardless of what papers the court had given him.