Nietzsche reading tips

[GePap]

Originally posted by elijah
Standing on the shoulders of giants. Still, the only difference between a book and a good summary is the language used. If there is significance in the langauge and discourse itself, as opposed to the concepts they illustrate, then I'll read the discourse.

Time is rarely in short supply for philosophers, so why deny yourself the enjoyment of the written word?

[Maniac]

Man, you gotta read Plato.

Well I did read some Plato due to Latin classes. Not complete books, but certainly more than a summary.

The Republic has allegories and little things in there that are very insightful.

I guess any philosophers writes a few insightful things by random chance. But IMHO that isn't worth reading a whole book of which the rest is crap.

we can't get all flustered because some stuff he has to say, in a conceptual virginity then, is politically incorrect now.

I don't care about political incorrectness. I have many of those myself. Actually Plato being a totalitarian is the least of my reasons to disagree with him.

Don't read because you agree. Read to disagree, and form alternatives. You're not going to turn a lump of iron into a sword by forging it with cold water!

Well I do read to disagree (or at least I read critically). However when you have read summaries of certain philosophies, and you see already in those the in your opinion faulty premises or logical errors, then there isn't much point in reading the entire philosophy. The summary suffices to form your alternatives. You can then focus on those alternatives, and read philosophies that lie closer to them. Then you can again use your critical thought, and judge what parts of that alternative you agree with and which you don't. You can then again focus deeper on that alternative alternative, and after that the alternative alternative alternative... That way you can refine and nuance your thoughts more and more. For example if I'm into oriental philosophy, reading the entire Bible isn't gonna learn me anything more than just knowing the basics of Christianity. Instead I should read books about eastern philosophy and partition the (in my opinion) "good" and the "bad" from those.

[Japher]

Time is rarely in short supply for philosophers

Don't feed the wolves.

[Whaleboy]

Time is rarely in short supply for philosophers, so why deny yourself the enjoyment of the written word?

At this point in my life, time is in short supply for me. I have to find time for college, writing three books at once (though concentrating mainly on one), article writing, thinking up new stuff, plus will have to get a job in February. Not to mention the whole "lets waste a third of the day sleeping" thing.

Well I did read some Plato due to Latin classes. Not complete books, but certainly more than a summary

Ummm, dude, Plato was, umm... Greek

I guess any philosophers writes a few insightful things by random chance. But IMHO that isn't worth reading a whole book of which the rest is crap

Personal taste I guess. As soon as anything gets published by one "Ben Joseph Elijah", make sure you buy!

I don't care about political incorrectness. I have many of those myself. Actually Plato being a totalitarian is the least of my reasons to disagree with him

Fair play, I know my share of being politically incorrect! (I think I got a thread deleted because of it ).

I know its tedious to read stuff you disagree with, but then, it is fun to knock it down. After all, all these "great" philosophers are no more men and intellects than you and me. I'll read a summary I disagree with, like some lame Utilitarian stuff, and critique it.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by elijah


*elijah draws on his miniscule classical knowledge obtained through spurious encounters with the History channel*

Wasn't Sparta defeated by the Athenians and some other city states? Or am I thinking later?

The Thebans - at Leuctra

[Agathon]

Originally posted by elijah

The notion of being positively charged is a human construct to fit certain paramaters. Applying that artificial notion, one can say that protons are thus charged. There is no natural notion of positive, or even proton, but assume the two, and you have the two being synonamous.

This risks total idealism. Are events real things that occur in the world or are they too, mental constructs.

If everything is a mental construct then it turns out that reality is a form of intellectual masturbation.

[Maniac]

Agathon:

Well that is rather unfair. What you seem to forget is that Plato's political ideas ought to be judged in context...

I know I know. I just find it rather fun to depict Plato as some totalitarian bastard whenever I meet someone who adores him. As said to eLIJAH, his totalitarianism is the least of my worries. I rather disagree with the rest. Reasoning, the nature of reality...

So you believe that the common nature of being positively charged, which all protons share, is a mental construct rather than something all protons themselves have?

I believe the theories involving "positive charge" and "protons" are concepts to describe reality. However those theories and concepts don't have a 100% correlation with reality.

Ah I just see eLIJAH explains it much better.

But let me give a quote of me out of a discussion in the ACDG forum:

Value-neutral or paradigma-free knowledge of reality is probably impossible. You can only be a 100% sure of something if you set certain base axioms yourself. But you can't know 100% sure if those axioms, upon which you base your scientific theories, have a good relation to reality.

GePap:

I assume you will read it in Dutch or german..if in English, get a translation by Kaufmann..by far the best translator of Nietzsche into english.

Unfortunately there don't seem to be any English translations of Nietzsche in my library. But I guess a Dutch translation of a German book is much better anyway, as the languages are closer.

eLIJAH:

Ummm, dude, Plato was, umm... Greek

We saw Greek philosophy during Latin classes.

As soon as anything gets published by one "Ben Joseph Elijah", make sure you buy!

You mean for the Book Burning Barbecue?

I know its tedious to read stuff you disagree with, but then, it is fun to knock it down.

Well my brother knows I'm into philosophy (just not what sort), so for Xmas he bought me some "Philosophy for Dummies" of some American christian author. I browsed through the book, and reading his arguments to prove the existence of God and absolute morality were simply hilarious. Still, at least IMO, the novelty of it quickly weared off, and then you're just stuck with someone using silly concepts, and building even more silly theories based on those concepts.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Maniac


I believe the theories involving "positive charge" and "protons" are concepts to describe reality. However those theories and concepts don't have a 100% correlation with reality.

But unless some of our concepts do we risk complete idealism.

How am I to know that my concepts don't have 100% correlation with reality unless I have some concepts which do in order to make the comparison in the first place?

Either you don't, in which case the statement is vacuous; or you do in which case the statement is false.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Man, you gotta read Plato.

Why can't he read a summary

You arguments for reading Plato, as GePap said, apply to all philosophers. Their arguements are much more in depth than some summary can show you.

As for Neitzsche, I think 'Beyond Good and Evil' is one of his finer works as well, and has some funny quotes .

Is Hegel really interesting?

He's pretty good. I'm intrigued by his dialetic and his ideas that war is required for progress (very simplified, I know). Though he's a PAIN IN THE ASS to read. Even worse than Kant.

[Provost Harrison]

I think Nietzsche has some fantastic quotes, some of my favourites in fact, although I have never read any of his work from beginning to end. He has a lot of interesting points...the problem has always how they have been interpreted...

[St Leo]

I like Will to Power. It's a bit like a blog, except that it was written on paper.

[GePap]

Ughh no, terrible book: it was put together by the sister after his death, and lets say his sister was not the most trustworthy editor out there.

[St Leo]

Haven't new editions been re-edited and re-arranged? I read the one translated and edited by Walter Kaufman.

[GePap]

Well, if he re-arranaged the work and undid the worse sins of the sister, it might be worth reading.

[Dis]

*sigh*

why do people like this guy?

You do know what his real life was like, right?

He was a loser. though he did have to endure some serious pain in his life.