More troops NOT needed in Iraq.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MikeH
"Cover their tracks"?

What do you mean? They don't want to clean up your mess that they opposed in the first place. Why would they?

As far as i know the German govt has never denied that Iraq was a mess before March 2003, and has accepted that recontructing it is the worlds problem, not that of the US alone. They have disagreed with the limited UN role the US has proposed, but that is under discussion.

[CerberusIV]

Rumsfeld wants to save money for the Stryker equipped units he is pushing for. More to the point one of the main objections to the new units is that they involve fewer troops. That might be OK to fight but looks short handed for follow up peacekeeping.

Rummy seems to have moved on from Iraq to the next issue on his agenda and forget what the guys who have to deal with the situation want, they aren't in Washington.

[Q Classic]

Actually what this says is that Germany is run by jackasses who still want to cover their tracks.

what he means is that the germans weren't with us before, and thus are against us. they're not our friends, and with friends like that, who needs enemies?

i think this is when i go:
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

and then post a picture of britney.

[BeBMan]

Fischer already promised help (money) for Iraq, but no troops. I think the core of the problem is domestic politics. Even when there´s a new UN resolution for Iraq and basic agreement that more help is needed, Schroeder knows that it is unpopular to sent soldiers into the country, so he tries to get around this. Plus, he always said that he don´t want to sent them so the opposition here would use it against him if he changes his opinion now (although some opposition leaders would agree with German troops in Iraq).

And to be fair, Germany does help much in Afghanistan, more then other European countries.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
Rumsfeld wants to save money for the Stryker equipped units he is pushing for. More to the point one of the main objections to the new units is that they involve fewer troops. That might be OK to fight but looks short handed for follow up peacekeeping.

well yeah, but thats likely to be true for any possible configuration of the US army. Does Shinseki really want masses of light infantry , who would be second rate at conventional warfare, just for peacekeeping? If the US is going to maintain a dedicatged peacekeeping force, we need to recruit, train and organize them on that basis - I saw a report from Baquba that the US troops there (1st armored?) dont speak Arabic, and are coming to despise the locals. We need guys (and gals) with language and cultural training, MP/Civil affairs training, as well as some light infantry training. Who are recruited with the expectation that they will spend most of their time deployed overseas. A cross between a military force and the foreign service. A peacekeeping corps.

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Actually what this says is that Germany is run by jackasses who still want to cover their tracks.

what he means is that the germans weren't with us before, and thus are against us. they're not our friends, and with friends like that, who needs enemies?

i think this is when i go:
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

and then post a picture of britney.

Just another jackass in the herd of jackasses.
They were all for it at the start, just like the frog-eating French.
Ming is a jackass, but even he knows about Germany and France.




(Bastard )

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by BeBro
Fischer already promised help (money) for Iraq, but no troops. I think the core of the problem is domestic politics. Even when there´s a new UN resolution for Iraq and basic agreement that more help is needed, Schroeder knows that it is unpopular to sent soldiers into the country, so he tries to get around this. Plus, he always said that he don´t want to sent them so the opposition here would use it against him if he changes his opinion now (although some opposition leaders would agree with German troops in Iraq).

And to be fair, Germany does help much in Afghanistan, more then other European countries.

I see Germany trying to achieve reconciliation with the US, while constrained by domestic politics.

I just found the particular statement striking, in view of the US debate over troop levels. While i dont expect Schroeder to follow US politics in detail, Id be surprised if he wasnt aware of the debate.

[Q Classic]

Just another jackass in the herd of jackasses.
They were all for it at the start, just like the frog-eating French.
Ming is a jackass, but even he knows about Germany and France.

(Bastard :lol

eh? are you referring to me?

i'll have you know i wasn't born out of wedlock.

[SlowwHand]

No. Ming's a bastard. Old news to him.

[Dinner]

Ming on rakastajani?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


IIUC the senior commanders have been saying Rumsfield is wrong to not go to the UN and ensure we have troops to maintain the rotation - not saying a higher number would improve security.

Senior commanders do not publicly contradict SecDef or POTUS any time prior to their retirement parties.

[MikeH]

I see POTUS but read POTTY.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Senior commanders do not publicly contradict SecDef or POTUS any time prior to their retirement parties.

not publicly, but the story in the WaPo the other day is that they went straight to Powell (funny, they all seem to know Powell personally ) and Powell went to the White House with their backing for going to the UN. Story said Wolfie was upset, Wolfie said he was copacetic with the UN as long as there was US command, Rummy made his usual snarky remarks about journalists hyping a non-story.

[DanS]

I see Germany trying to achieve reconciliation with the US, while constrained by domestic politics.

Trying to achieve reconciliation?

US has failed in Iraq, says Fischer

10 September 2003

BERLIN - German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer asserted Wednesday that US policy in Iraq had failed while calling for German-American ties to be redefined on the basis of equal partners.

"The American domino theory under which a liberated Iraq was supposed to stabilise the Middle East and democratise one country after another has not proven right," said Fischer in an interview with the news magazine Stern.

He added: "The decisive question now is whether a strategy which has not worked will be replaced by one that can."

Fischer said Germany wanted a swift handover of sovereignty in Baghdad to Iraqi nationals and the United Nations. Moderate Arab and Islamic states must also be involved in stabilising Iraq, he said.

European states would hammer out a new plan for Iraq within the coming two months, Fischer said without giving any further details.

While insisting transatlantic ties remained important, Fischer said in a separate speech to parliament that things would have to change between Berlin and Washington.

"This means we must approach one another as partners," said Fischer, adding that Germany needed to hold a fundamental debate about the future of transatlantic ties.

Berlin would insist on a new multilateralism in global politics, said the minister.

Ties between Germany and the United States have soured over the Iraq war which German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder and Fischer strongly opposed.

http://www.expatica.com/germanymain.asp?pad=190,205,&item_id=34115

It's the same old bull****. Declare a policy failed after it has hardly begun.

[BeBMan]

If it was a great success the US wouldn´t go to the UN now.