The Apolyton Science Fiction Discussion Group: The Man in the High Castle.

[JohnT]

"Chinese" characters? Don't let your fellow Japanese see that!

[monolith94]

"Hell, I was just looking for a plot."

There is a plot, and it is deeply rooted. I guess I'll have to be the books defender here. First, I think the writing style is much better than turtledove - I just kept turning the page for countless hours. Second, the book is about something - I think it's commentary on the very idea of alternate history itself. Is alternate history proper? Is it right? Are there really an infinite number of equally plausible universes, or is there really only one universe, where everything has happened as it has happened, and will happen as it will happen.

And if there is only one universe, what does this say about fate?

Also, I loved the characters. Oh well, whatever. Can't expect the swinish multitudes of apolyton to agree with everything I reccomend...

[Drake Tungsten]

"Chinese" characters? Don't let your fellow Japanese see that!

Uhh, John? The characters for the word "kanji" are "kan" (ancient China) and "ji" (letter) respectively. I think there's a good chance that the Japanese acknowledge where the characters came from.

[Drake Tungsten]

I sent a PM to Drake seeing if he could give some insight into the Japanese mindset

I don't really think I'm qualified to comment on "the Japanese mindset," but I'll give it a shot.

I found his portrayal of the Japanese as the most rational and least emotive (and least racist!) of peoples to be almost laughable

For the record, I haven't read the book, so I don't have a great idea of what Dick's view of the Japanese was like. That being said, I think he has a point if he describes the Japanese as rational and non-emotive. I wouldn't call them the most rational and non-emotive of peoples, but they're certainly high on the list.

The non-emotive aspect of Japanese culture is quite noticeable when you live here, especially if you are around adult men. In Japan, with its almost maniacal focus on group harmony, it is considered childish to lose one's temper or make any comparable show of emotion that could effect group relations. The male teachers I work with demonstrate this well. I've been working with them for over a month and have yet to see any demonstration of what I would call a "strong" emotional response. They all have this poker face on all the time that makes it extremely difficult to gauge what they're feelings are. The only time that they really drop their guard is when they are drinking, which is the one activity in which it is socially acceptable to speak one's mind.

For example, I thought that the baseball coach didn't like me, as he was always very distant around me, but we all went out drinking last night and he couldn't have been nicer to me, talking to me and teaching me "lessons" about going out in Japan. However, once we were back at work today, it was back to the same old standoff-ish attitude.

This non-emotive behavior is most noticeable in adult males, but the women exhibit it as well, particularly in regards to negative emotions. The only ones who show what I would consider "normal" levels of emotion are the young men.

As for the "rationality" of the Japanese, that's a hard quality to really observe. I can see how Dick might consider them rational, however, as the social structure here requires a great amount of thinking to navigate properly. You always have to consider the social hierarchy here and adjust your behavior according to who you are dealing with. You also have to think about the best ways to get what you want, but in an indirect manner, as direct means of communication are shunned here.

The best way I can think of to describe this combination of rationality and non-emotiveness in the Japanese psyche is through an adage I picked up somewhere (source forgotten at the moment). The adage states that Japanese society is like a duck swimming on a lake; calm on the surface, but paddling like hell underneath. The non-emotive aspect of Japanese behavior maintains the "calm surface", the veneer of harmony that is so vital to good group relations. Meanwhile, the rationality of the Japanese is honed in the hidden but very real struggle to improve one's lot in the society, the underwater "paddling."

Is that what you were looking for, John? I could write some more on the other topics you brought up, if you want.

edit: Be careful what you ask for, however. A discussion of Japanese "racism" and its Confucian roots could end up many times longer than this monster post.

[Harry Seldon]

I thought this book wasn't as good as some of ****'s other offerings. It was interesting to see how life would have been different under those circumstances but the trek for the Man in the High Castle seemed anticlimatic. I may have to read it again to fully appreciate it because I couldn't help but be disappointed that nothing happened, nobody fought back. Maybe that was the spirit he was trying to catch?

[pchang]

request

I'd like to request the Neal Stephenson's
The Diamond Age be put on the discussion list for some time in the near future.

[JohnT]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=96729

The way the group works is this:

I start a nomination thread where people can list a book to vote for in an upcoming election (the above thread is for November nominations).

Then, after all nominations are in, I start a voting thread (multiple choice, please limit yourself to three votes) where people can vote on which book to read (The November voting thread will probably start later this week). When that's done, I'll start the discussion thread on or around the first of the month so we can trash the book and make the nominator feel like a putz for wasting our time.

Next months book(s) are The Dune Chronicles. If you want to nominate the Stephenson book, please click on the above link and post the nomination there. Thanks!

[monolith94]

How in god's name am I goin to read the entire Dune Series and still get good grades???

[Imran Siddiqui]

I just read the first... screw the rest .

[Drake Tungsten]

How far does JohnT want you guys to read? He surely isn't going to make you read Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune is he? That's just cruel...

[JohnT]

The whole series is up for discussion, though the emphasis will be on the first book. I selected the whole set because I didn't want to worry about spoilers.

And Chapterhouse and Heretics were pretty good books!

[Drake Tungsten]

And Chapterhouse and Heretics were pretty good books!

If you say so...