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  • #31
    At the risk of being trolled, insulted and shouted at by neo-Confederates on Apolyton, I decided to take the plunge -- again.


    1) Yes, Slowwhand is obviously right in that a minority of white Southerners owned slaves in antebellum America.
    But this is only part of the truth -- an oversimplification. This very minority of the planter elite managed throughout antebellum American history, to minimize changes towards more democratic reprsentative state governments -- the same progress being made in the Northern states was not as strong as in the Southern states. The planter elite established and maintained their form of underrepresentation around the interest of preserving their economic and political power over the people. And part of their plan was to preserve and even expand slavery.
    And remember that this minority of slave owners by 1860, owned four million blacks as slaves -- a huge number of people held in life-long bondage.

    2) Slowwhand was stating only part of the truth in regards to the Ku Klux Klan -- of course Ku Klux Klan members were resentful of Northerners and Southern Unionists ruling the different Southern states after Radical Reconstruction took over from Presidential Reconstruction.
    And yes -- the Ku Klux Klan started out at a more low-key level through bullying and scare tactics against blacks and Southern Unionists rather than outright political terror and violence.

    However, the Ku Klux Klan grew out of its original function. It changed into a political terrorist organization for the Democratic party during Reconstruction. Ku Klux Klan members disrupted ballot voting through intimidation, physical assaults, murder, and ballot box stuffing -- and other clubs and individuals on their own, carried out similar acts. The Ku Klux Klan by this time was bent on restoring white supremacy as they knew it, through racial violence and political terror.


    3) There were "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags" who were corrupt throughout Reconstruction -- these specific individuals never deserved any political offices they held. Instead of attempting to improve the conditions of their respective state, these corrupt politicians sucked the resources and what little money was available, away from essential programs, for their own selfish gains.

    However, there were other "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags" who sincerely wanted to improve the state governments of the South. They wanted to do away with the old regime that relied on undemocratic forms of representation in order to preserve the economic interests of the planter elite. Instead, these "carpetbaggers" and scalawags envisioned more democratic forms of representation in the Southern states that would include all men regardless of race.
    These individuals also sought to establish public schools, new hospitals, stronger enforcement against voting/ballot fraud, and poor houses that would benefit Southerners of both races.


    4) The failure of Reconstruction came about due to a multitude of factors, some which include:

    a) political and racial violence through organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan

    b) those individual "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags" who were actually corrupt and greedy -- don't lump the legitimate state politicians with the corrupt ones

    d) the waning interest of an increasing number of Republican party leaders in the issues of racial equality in favor of economic issues, and the disgust with the seemingly endless charade in the Southern states -- so the Republicans began in the late nineteenth century to embrace white supremacy in the spirit of reconciliation and reunion with white Southerners

    The failure of Reconstruction cannot fall onto only one group of people, nor can it all be shoved onto the South for its failure -- it's more complicated than that, as I alluded to above.



    Oh, one last thing -- because I TRY my best to be objective about the history of the Civil War and Reconstruction, does not mean that I hate white Southerners.

    So please, no need to insult me because you disagree with what I have stated above.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

    Comment


    • #32
      Comeon Mr.Fun, you can do better then that! Use your wit and humor to make a devestaingly hilarious comment that upset the ranks of the Confederate Hordes!
      "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

      "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
        Comeon Mr.Fun, you can do better then that! Use your wit and humor to make a devestaingly hilarious comment that upset the ranks of the Confederate Hordes!
        The problem is that Apolytoners do not appreciate my humor usually.
        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

        Comment


        • #34
          You haven't been giving it your all! Gather you strength, and let 'em have it in a devestating burst of pure humour!
          "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

          "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

          Comment


          • #35
            Ok, enough with the biting sarcasm -- it's so un-Christian like.
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

            Comment


            • #36
              "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

              "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by JohnT
                He was? So what's with all the "we suthenuh's" act that MtG puts on?
                Because I guess some dumbass trolls think my pappy should have left my mom on her own to pop me out while he had to move out of state for a nine months temporary job assignment when she was six months pregnant with me.

                Evidently, he was supposed to quit his job, or keep the job and leave her on her own, to satisfy the nitpicking trolling urge of a few dip****s that wouldn't be born for another decade or two.

                Instead, he had the basic decency to rent a little bit bigger apartment and bring her along. Our legal, permanent residency was still Lawrence County, Kentucky, with kin scattered from Richmond, VA to Louisville.
                When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                Comment


                • #38
                  MrFun, I appreciate your attempt at objectivity. Unfortunately its conclusions are based upon limited facts presented and incorrect conclusions. I invite you to spend time in the South and hear the truth as it was passed down from those that experienced it. The "Objective" historical accounts written by mostly northern scholars are often based on information compiled and presented by the very "carpetbaggers" that you describe. It should be obvious that the north would have to have this picture of the South in order to justify the terrible tragedy they created. No insults from me for your feelings, just once again, come to the source for the real truth.
                  "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


                    Instead, he had the basic decency to rent a little bit bigger apartment and bring her along. Our legal, permanent residency was still Lawrence County, Kentucky, with kin scattered from Richmond, VA to Louisville.
                    Interesting...my folks had to move north to Indianapolis for two years. This was when I was born. I am at least a fourth generation Middle Tennessean...my son is at least the fifth.
                    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by PLATO
                      MrFun, I appreciate your attempt at objectivity. Unfortunately its conclusions are based upon limited facts presented and incorrect conclusions. I invite you to spend time in the South and hear the truth as it was passed down from those that experienced it. The "Objective" historical accounts written by mostly northern scholars are often based on information compiled and presented by the very "carpetbaggers" that you describe. It should be obvious that the north would have to have this picture of the South in order to justify the terrible tragedy they created. No insults from me for your feelings, just once again, come to the source for the real truth.
                      Yeah right -- Southerners are more objective about their own region's history??
                      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                      Comment


                      • #41

                        Because I guess some dumbass trolls think my pappy should have left my mom on her own to pop me out while he had to move out of state for a nine months temporary job assignment when she was six months pregnant with me.
                        Nobody was implying anything of the sort.
                        "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                        "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MrFun


                          Yeah right -- Southerners are more objective about their own region's history??
                          Perhaps not, but I can show you bloodstains where blacks were murdered by northerners because they did not want to leave their homes and then I can take you to their graves. Or maybe you would like to view the gravesites of the women who were group raped and killed. Maybe you would like to see the smoke damage from where they burned buildings in towns that had no military value. We could even go to where one family hid their valuables in a column on their porch because the northerners were looting everything. But most of all, we should go and sit at the feet of my 97 year oldaunt and hear her relate the tales as told to her by her grandmother who was there. Biased? Maybe...but perhaps it is your history that needs to look at its objectivity.
                          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


                            Nobody was implying anything of the sort.
                            I know you weren't, but a couple of trolls who shall remain nameless (not the current usual suspects) have run their mouths about it in the past. I just wanted to preempt further comments.
                            When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Hey Southerners, if you were set free, would you reinstitute slavery?
                              http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                              • #45
                                Why? Ignoring the moral issues, it makes no economic sense.
                                When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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