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**Drake Tungsten** · September 4, 2003, 08:30

While Apple's (Nasdaq: AAPL) Mac devotees just shake their heads in wonder, Windows users have had to contend with the Blaster worm and several variants.

Ain't that the truth.

**Rufus T. Firefly** · September 4, 2003, 08:30

But in the future, journalism textbooks will use this subject line, rather than "Dog Bites Man," as the quintessential example of something that is not news.

**Q Classic** · September 4, 2003, 11:18

you know, sometimes the fault of these worms propagating isn't in the software as much as in the user.

stupid users do stupid things, like installing spyware, opening every attachment...

**Solver** · September 4, 2003, 11:21

Q Cubed, very true. But still that's no reason why software with this many flaws is acceptable.

But wait, there's more. Mr. Softy identified four other flaws yesterday, bringing its total to 39 this year.

This is just ridicilous. After all, people working for Microsoft are skilled enough programmers, although sometimes I'm just awed at them.

I know that the programmer who wrote fdisk for DOS had only learnt C a short time before making fdisk.

**Asher** · September 4, 2003, 11:25

I'm in awe at the lack of common sense a lot of people show when criticizing this kind of stuff.

**Asmodean** · September 4, 2003, 11:31

to Asher.

It is ridiculous how much of target Microsoft have become over this. But now that it is so, it is a good move of them to put extra focus on the issue. After all, they do have a huge responsibility, considering how many incredibly dumb users they have.

Asmodean

**MikeH** · September 4, 2003, 11:34

What do you expect? They've marketed their OSes as something that's simple enough for anyone to use. People who don't know anything about computers want something that just works. If they get something that breaks easily then their perception is that it's crap. They don't care about how much code there is or any of that, they just don't want their computer crashing all the time, getting hacked and getting viruses etc.

**Asher** · September 4, 2003, 11:36

I also have a major pet peve with financial writers talking about computers, especially when they lack any kind of basic reasoning skills like this author:

Bill Gates and his team have made better security a top priority in the company, but so far there's a critical flaw in their execution.

How is there a flaw in their execution, based on this article? The software affected in the article have shipped before (and designed WAY before) the trustworth computing campaign was launched.

It's simply stupid for him to look at old software from before, which MS has discovered and patched just now, and say "see, the old software didn't magically and secretly become more secure. They had to patch it -- which shows just how flawed their plan is!"

**Asher** · September 4, 2003, 11:39

Originally posted by MikeH
What do you expect? They've marketed their OSes as something that's simple enough for anyone to use. People who don't know anything about computers want something that just works. If they get something that breaks easily then their perception is that it's crap. They don't care about how much code there is or any of that, they just don't want their computer crashing all the time, getting hacked and getting viruses etc.

I'm not talking about the general consumer, I'm talking about the:
1) Mac user who wrote this article (the Mac users "shake their heads" and ridiculous slant on the article gave that one way
2) The Linux geeks and others

But you have the right idea, consumers want something simple enough for anyone to use. That's why they use Windows. But to make it simple enough for anyone to use, sacrifices in security have to be made.

Somehow I don't think home users would appreciate mandatory passwords, with mixed case, at least 1 numeral, 12 characters long or more, with at least one symbol...and force you to log into root to install anything systemwide.

**MikeH** · September 4, 2003, 11:43

That article was rubbish. Agreed.

Agreed, they might not appreciate it but that's only because they've got used to not having to do it. If they'd always needed to do things like that they'd be used to it now.

**Solver** · September 4, 2003, 11:43

Asher,

While the media love to critcize MS more, Linux doesn't have as many security issues. I only have to download security patches for my Linux box very rarely - holes are mostly found in exotic packages, or are not very critical. Something as large as the recent RPC vulnerability is rare. And yes, I know that users are to blame for not patching up.

I have nothing against MS... I'm a supporter of theirs. I respect Bill Gates completely. And I hate it when Gates, personally, is being blamed.

Very few pieces of software in widespread commercial adoption are as complicated or large as Office and Windows.

True, but software such as Visual Studio, which is very compliciated, has no such issues. Of course, I know that Windows issues are understandable, because it defines a lot... Windows is an OS, therefore, does a LOT of stuff.

May I remind you about the Shatter vulnerability, though. The hole has been there for what, 10 years? And they say it can't be even fixed...

**Solver** · September 4, 2003, 11:45

But you have the right idea, consumers want something simple enough for anyone to use. That's why they use Windows. But to make it simple enough for anyone to use, sacrifices in security have to be made.

Somehow I don't think home users would appreciate mandatory passwords, with mixed case, at least 1 numeral, 12 characters long or more, with at least one symbol...and force you to log into root to install anything systemwide.

Users , in general, are stupid, that being the first law of IT. Blaster existed because of user stupidity... and that's the problem. They want something simple (Windows). They want something so simple that they don't even bother with security patches, or anything. That doesn't fall into the "simple" category, and so the majority of users will never even update.

Though I believe that Windows should force every account to be passworded...

**FrustratedPoet** · September 4, 2003, 11:47

Originally posted by Solver
Though I believe that Windows should force every account to be passworded...

Although when 90% of the stupid users will have their password as a date, a short sequence of consecutive numbers, the word "password" or their own name it will have very limited effectiveness.

**Asmodean** · September 4, 2003, 11:49

Originally posted by MikeH
What do you expect? They've marketed their OSes as something that's simple enough for anyone to use. People who don't know anything about computers want something that just works. If they get something that breaks easily then their perception is that it's crap. They don't care about how much code there is or any of that, they just don't want their computer crashing all the time, getting hacked and getting viruses etc.

No, no and no. As Asher pointed out, other OS'es have just as many flaws. They just don't have as many users, so it doesn't get as much publicity.

As for expecting a program with 40 million lines of code to be flawless. It just can't be done. No way. Especially a program like Windows. There are a gazillion ways to use Windows. In a gazillion different environments, with a gazillion different configurations. No amount, repeat, no amount of testing can foresee all cases. No amount of carefull thinking can foresee all the possible ways hackers will attempt to break the security of Windows.

That people don't understand this is simply beyond me. This is not comparable to buying a car or a foodprocessor, and expecting them to be safe. Windows is so many times more complex. Besides, common sense should tell most people how to operate a car, and what is potentially dangerous. Common sense is not always enough for inexperienced computer users, when determinating is an operation is safe to perform on his/her PC. Therefore you simply can not blame Microsoft for not caring. They have the difficult task of creating an easy-to-use OS that at the same time is complex enough to satisfy experienced users.

Not an easy task, believe me.

Asmodean

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