How long could slavery have lasted in the south?

[Sava]

Let me repeat, it wasn't hate of Blacks, it was hate of Northerners.

That's right... the KKK doesn't hate blacks...

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Japher


Care to back that up? Of course I didn't back up my claim, but if they weren't free, weren't emancipated, and were instead enlisting in the army to fight for their freedom, then what were they?

The institution of slavery was outlawed in the Northern states. If you want to argue about what, exactly, constitutes slavery, I'm sure you could argue that it existed until the 1960s - or, if you are of the commie persuasion, that it exists today. Fact is, though, that blacks in the North were not other people's property. That doesn't change the fact that the North was just as racist as the South, but it does mean that your claim is bull****.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Sava, shut the **** up.
No, don't. You're a good illustration also.



We have slaves now.
We work them as roofers, concrete layers, and yard maintenance.
They sleep 10 to a 1 bedroom apartment.

Wait a second.
Never mind. Those are illegal Mexicans.
My mistake.

[Arrian]

COMMIE! Just kidding. But surely you can see the difference between 1860s slavery in the CSA and illegal aliens working for sub-minimum wage? The Mexicans came here, of their own choice, to work. The slaves didn't have a choice in the matter. To me, that makes a world of difference.

-Arrian

[Sava]

Illegal immigrants come here voluntarily... and they try really hard to do it... sometimes risking their lives. And conditions in Mexico are worse for them. So what's your solution? Deport them all at enormous expense to taxpayers. And such an effort would be like trying to empty water from the Titanic with a Dixie Cup (no pun intended).

[Arrian]

Empty the water from the Titanic with a Dixie cup. Not bad, Sava, not bad.

-Arrian

[Japher]

The institution of slavery was outlawed in the Northern states. If you want to argue about what, exactly, constitutes slavery, I'm sure you could argue that it existed until the 1960s - or, if you are of the commie persuasion, that it exists today. Fact is, though, that blacks in the North were not other people's property. That doesn't change the fact that the North was just as racist as the South, but it does mean that your claim is bull****.

The institution of slavery was not outlawed in all the Northern States until 1965. Slave trade was illegal however... And, still, the Union Army and government returned any captured slaves to their southern and northern owners as they were considered property until 1863 with the Negro Regime Law, which still saw them as spoils of war until they served their term in the war.

[Sava]

Arrian: thank you thank you, I'm here all week...

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by SlowwHand



I'd appreciate it if you would kindly stop bastardizing what I say.

What you allude to, is where I once again pointed out as the need to deal with Carpetbaggers.

You keep illustrating the points I make though, so keep it up.


Let me repeat, it wasn't hate of Blacks, it was hate of Northerners.

See MrFun for examples.

So then, logically, the Klan would have lynched carpetbaggers, not blacks. Hmm...

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Japher


The institution of slavery was not outlawed in all the Northern States until 1965. Slave trade was illegal however... And, still, the Union Army and government returned any captured slaves to their southern and northern owners as they were considered property until 1863 with the Negro Regime Law, which still saw them as spoils of war until they served their term in the war.

The only reason escaped slaves were returned was because the Southern states forced through legislation to that effect (threatening, IIRC, to leave the Union if they didn't get their way. This became a recurring theme, you see).

As for the rest - technicality. You stated that most Northerners "had slaves" at the time of the Civil War. I called bull****. You have done nothing to prove your original assertion.

-Arrian

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by Sava
Illegal immigrants come here voluntarily... and they try really hard to do it... sometimes risking their lives. And conditions in Mexico are worse for them. So what's your solution? Deport them all at enormous expense to taxpayers. And such an effort would be like trying to empty water from the Titanic with a Dixie Cup (no pun intended).

Sava, you jackass.
Hell no. I want them here.
Think I want to do my own yardwork any more than ALL my supposed ancestors wanted to pick their own cotton or work their own rice paddies ?
I doubt that seriously.

[Ming]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Sava, shut the **** up.

remember... attack the argument... NOT THE POSTER.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Arrian


The institution of slavery was outlawed in the Northern states. If you want to argue about what, exactly, constitutes slavery, I'm sure you could argue that it existed until the 1960s - or, if you are of the commie persuasion, that it exists today. Fact is, though, that blacks in the North were not other people's property. That doesn't change the fact that the North was just as racist as the South, but it does mean that your claim is bull****.

-Arrian

Delaware was a completely Union (unlike the neutral/disputed slave states of Missouri, Kentucky and Maryland) slave state until ratification of the 13th Amendment.

That was one of the reasons a number of abolitionists complained that Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation (masterful doublespeak that it was) freed the slaves not within the union, but failed to free those who were within the union.

[Japher]

You stated that most Northerners "had slaves" at the time of the Civil War

Alright, I submit, as most Southerners didn't have slaves either... All I was trying to say was that slavery existed in the north and that their were many slaves there, as there were in the south...

I did find this surprising

"Of the total southern white population of 8,099,760 in 1860, only 384,000 owned slaves. Of these, 10,780 owned fifty or more. It was calculated that about 88 per cent of America's slave-owners owned twenty slaves or less."

[Jack_www]

Originally posted by Sava
Illegal immigrants come here voluntarily... and they try really hard to do it... sometimes risking their lives. And conditions in Mexico are worse for them. So what's your solution? Deport them all at enormous expense to taxpayers. And such an effort would be like trying to empty water from the Titanic with a Dixie Cup (no pun intended).

We need to enforce the border more, just on a national security issue alone. As far as Mexico is concern the best sollution is that the Mexican government ends its massive coruption and start actually helping its own people. They want their poor to come into the UNited States so they dont have to deal with them. If they stayed in Mexico, about 6 to 8 million mexicans were back in Mexico unemployed and just sitting there it would cause major chaos. But too the border states of, especially California cant take anymore. We already billions of dollars in debt, the freeways and housing is running out of room, many schools in LA are over crowded. So just letting illigeal immigration to countie will not be good for the US in terms of the cost to government and the prospect of terrorist using the Mexican border to sneak into the United States.