siege over in afghanistan, 124 taliban killed, BBC ignores

[Lonestar]

So? How many civilians died in the Iran-Iraq war? How many in the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait? The Yemeni Civil war? Ultimately the numbers of Muslim civilians killed by other muslims are astronomically higher than that of what we've inflicted on them. And that's because of their disregard/active attempts to kill them, whilst we try to avoid that whenever possible.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Lonestar
So? How many civilians died in the Iran-Iraq war? How many in the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait? The Yemeni Civil war? Ultimately the numbers of Muslim civilians killed by other muslims are astronomically higher than that of what we've inflicted on them. And that's because of their disregard/active attempts to kill them, whilst we try to avoid that whenever possible.

But do they see it that way? Thats the question.

Also, it's interesting...In the Iran-Iraq war, Iraq took about 6000 civilian casualties. Just an odd little fact.

[Lonestar]

Iran took signifigantly more.

[Sava]

Originally posted by TCO
So you find Osama and the US morally equivalent? Are you also against the Afghan war, Sava-girl?

You shouldn't come to such ignorant solutions...


I'm simply pointing out that we kill more of them than they kill us... I wasn't against the Afghan war, but as with Ramo, I've seen the results, and regret the incompetence of the Bush Administration to get the job done. Terrorism isn't going to be defeated by war... peace and prosperity is what fights terrorism.

But, I find Bush and his war-profiteering administration almost as morally bankrupt as OBL and his followers.

[TCO]

So you are for it?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Lonestar
So? How many civilians died in the Iran-Iraq war?

and how many on both sides died from US support?

How many in the Iraqi Invasion of Kuwait?

again... US supplied weapons and money

The Yemeni Civil war? Ultimately the numbers of Muslim civilians killed by other muslims are astronomically higher than that of what we've inflicted on them. And that's because of their disregard/active attempts to kill them, whilst we try to avoid that whenever possible.

Sure, they are killing each other... but at the end of the day, they remember who gave them the weapons.

[TCO]

You are for it...but you think 3 weeks was too long too wait? Or you are for it, but we shouldn't have had a couple tough days in November? Or you are for it but the i's weren't dotted?

[Sava]

Originally posted by TCO
So you are for it?

I'm neither for it or against it... I'm for killing the Taliban and Al Qaeda... but do I support Bush's quagmire?? No... I support the removal of Saddam, but do I support Bush's war? No... The problem is, he's just like Clinton. Sure, he's doing more than launching cruise missiles at empty tents, but he's not making the commitment to finish the job. He's using the wars as political capital.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Iran took signifigantly more.

Yep.

But, my point is that the Iraqi deathtoll from the Iranian-Iraqi war: 6000.

From the US who was extremly careful not to kill civilians: 6000.

Edit: Cleared up a surprisingly high Iraqi deathtoll

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Sava
and how many on both sides died from US support?

I'd like to point out Saddam attack Iran Without the USA saying "Go git 'em Tiger". With the Islamic Revolution and the Embassy Hostage crisis still in American minds, what would You have done if you were President at the time?

again... US supplied weapons and money

Weapons? Only major American military weapons I can think of are some Hueys we sold them. Whoop-de-fooking do.

Money? Well...we certainly bought oil from them. The Gulf states poured money and resources into Iraq, more than we did. Remember, Iraq was trying to default on the cash it owed Kuwait.

Sure, they are killing each other... but at the end of the day, they remember who gave them the weapons.

Uh, SUV drivers?

What a second....I'm a SUV Driver!

[Sava]

Originally posted by TCO
You are for it...but you think 3 weeks was too long too wait? Or you are for it, but we shouldn't have had a couple tough days in November? Or you are for it but the i's weren't dotted?

In order to effectively secure Afghanistan and kill the Taliban, I believe a massive invasion and occupation is the key. In the initial stages, the US used the Northern Alliance forces as cannon fodder while CIA and Special Forces gave them support (arms, fire, air, money) and intel... it was enough to drive the Taliban from power, but not enough to hunt them down.

My point is, if you are going to do a job, do it right. I'd rather have a massive invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan than this half-assed attempt from Bush. I'd like to see a UN coalition doing the job.

The worst part is, we know where OBL is. He's in the region bordering Pakistan... but I suspect we cannot go in for two reasons.

1. Not enough troops in the US's arsenal... also... not enough domestic support for such a military operation.

2. To prevent an Islamic revolution and holy war. If we put hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground, there will be a jihad against US forces.

[Sava]

Money? Well...we certainly bought oil from them. The Gulf states poured money and resources into Iraq, more than we did. Remember, Iraq was trying to default on the cash it owed Kuwait.

Kuwait was also extracting oil from Iraqi deposits. It's not as Kuwait was this innocent little nation... a dictator runs the country for ****'s sake! Saddam's invasion was wrong... but he was certainly provoked, and not just doing it because he was evil.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Sava
and Bush was willing to let them be if they gave up bin Laden... the Northern Alliance ain't no picnic either...

that was BS, we all knew they wouldn't have gave him up. We had to give them an ultimatum as kind of an excuse for attacking and destroying their country.

Of course Bush would have had egg on his face if they actually did.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
somehow the Beeb south asia page DID manage to make room for this:

"An Indian court rules that film star, Salman Khan, will not face homicide charges over a fatal car accident"

I dont think either CNN, WaPo, or the NYT covered this important case.

Possibly because in certain parts of the U.K., visiting Bollywood stars cause road blocks when they visit- Southall, Bradford, Manchester, Leicester, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2000/ASIANOW/entertainment/06/27/bollywood.uk/

[Dinner]

US supplied weapons and money

Sava: You are misinformed. Most of Iraqs weapons came from the former USSR and Iraq was a Soviet client state.