Can we kick some real terrorist ass please?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"im quite sure i heard on NPR that they can request otehr attorneys who have security clearance."

Among the Concessions Lord Goldsmith won for UK citizens was chosing civil US attorneys and the possibility to consult UK lawyers. Also, that a minimum of attorney-client priviledge would be respected.

200 UK MPs called these "tribunals" a farce in a petition to bring them to a real court.

per AP the concession is on use of UK and Aussie lawyers, rather than limit to US citizens. Again, AFAIK US citizens who have security clearance are allowed as attorneys, not just military lawyers.

Minimum attorney client privilege - IE no monitoring to see if secrets were being passed.

[HershOstropoler]

"and where even the presence of the defendent in US hands is secret"

Funny, about every authoritarian regime has used secret trials. What's next, state security courts a la Turkey?

[Dom Pedro II]

This is why vigilance against tyranny is always necessary.

[Bereta_Eder]

Re: Can we kick some real terrorist ass please?

Originally posted by The diplomat
Bombing against a UN building in Iraq. A bombing against a bus in Jerusalem.

Innocent people are dying because of these barbaric terrorist monsters.

When are you leftist going to realize that you can't appease, you can't play nice, you can't negotiate? If you try being nice all that happens is more innocent women and children die at the hands of these terrorist monsters.

It's time to get serious folks. Iraq and Afghanistan were a good start, but we are far from done.

IT'S TIME TO GET REAL. IT IS TIME TO BEAT THE CRAP OUT OF THESE TERRORISTS ONCE AND FOR ALL!

Please. Continue not to play nice, see where that getcha

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Originally posted by The diplomat
We cut off the funds

Stop buying oil, and half the problem is gone. Make sure the Arabs don't want to support affiliated organizations, and the other half of the problem is gone.

The first half is actually very easy to accomplish or at least to mostly accomplish. All you have to do is become more like France where you force people to ride mass transite, then tax the living **** out of gasoline, and finally use nuclear power instead of oil or gas powered plants. Once that is done you will see imports of Arab oil sink faster then the Titanic.

The Arabs, all 15 nations worth, export almost nothing else of value except oil. I mean the sum total of the nonpetroleum exports for the entire Arab world equals less then Denmark's yearly exports. Stop buying Arab oil and the Arab ability to turn their demented dreams of terror into reality virtually goes away. They go back to being poor, backwards, little fundimentalists whom no one cares about.

[Dom Pedro II]

Or, on the other hand, such an economic about-face could incite them to even more violent acts, and rather than just the fundies being in on it, the impoverished oil-mongers will sign up as well...

Destitution only inspires people to greater risks.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
The first half is actually very easy to accomplish or at least to mostly accomplish. All you have to do is become more like France where you force people to ride mass transite, then tax the living **** out of gasoline, and finally use nuclear power instead of oil or gas powered plants. Once that is done you will see imports of Arab oil sink faster then the Titanic.

You cannot imagine how overjoyed I'd be if the US actually did that. Not that I enjoy seeing the Arabs being ruined, but I sure would looooooove to see the greenhouse gas sink
(I'd love as well to be able to visit the US despite not having a driver's licence )

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"and where even the presence of the defendent in US hands is secret"

Funny, about every authoritarian regime has used secret trials. What's next, state security courts a la Turkey?

Its too bad. Thats why it would be better if we werent under attack by a sophisticated terrorist organization, one which is skilled in intel gathering and tradecraft. But we are, and moaning about the logical consequences of that wont make it go away.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: Can we kick some real terrorist ass please?

Originally posted by paiktis22



Please. Continue not to play nice, see where that getcha

so why did they target the UN, Paktis?? Why did they murder de mello??? what had he done that wasnt "nice"?

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Its too bad. Thats why it would be better if we werent under attack by a sophisticated terrorist organization, one which is skilled in intel gathering and tradecraft. But we are, and moaning about the logical consequences of that wont make it go away.

There is virtually no security concern that cannot be addressed in a normal court. Secrecy, however, is anathema. It allows for such blatant abuse that it is intolerable. Anyone can "disappear", and how can any rights be secured if you have to rely on the mercy of the benevolency of the court? Mr LOTM just disappeared. Is he held by the government? "Sorry, that's a state secret, can't tell you".

[Nubclear]

The solution to terrorism:

Liberals and conservatives need to work together.

Liberals tend to be able to look deeper into things. You know what I'm trying ot say here. The liberals would be good at keeping the peace, etc etc etc.
Conservatives like to smash things, so they'd be good at smashing terrorists.

Cause it can't be "won". Period.
But it can't be "almost won" if these two opposing sides don't co-operate.

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


ah the term is changed from "terrorism" to the amorphous "political violence" - thus establishing a moral equivalence in which a Paul Kagame is held to be the equivalent of an Idi Amin, in which a Shimon Peres is no better than Abu Nidal, in which a Bill Clinton is the equivalent of a Slobodan Milosevic and a Tony Blair the equivalent of Osama Bin Laden.

Amorphous? The meaning is rather clear.

As for "moral equivalence: there is no such things. Every act is different and independent. Now, if you believe what you just wrote, then I feel sorry for you in this regard.

Politcal violence can be effective or ineffective, as far as achieving your desired end goals. Since legitimacy is essentially decided by whomever ahs the greater capability for it, I leave that aside. The question is, what is your aim? And what is the best method to achieve it?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap



Politcal violence can be effective or ineffective, as far as achieving your desired end goals. Since legitimacy is essentially decided by whomever ahs the greater capability for it, I leave that aside.

well then, between you and me there is nothing to discuss.

You wondered why there was so much concern about "only" 30 or so deaths, which is light compared to deaths from "political violence". If you dont understand why deaths from cold blooded murder arouse more concern than other deaths in "political violence" then I cant help you.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Dom Pedro II
Oh yes... Israel has never used overwhelming military force... except when they occupy lands illegally and shell houses.

Overwhelming force is more like constantly shelling ALL of the houses

seems like both sides have morons, conservatives and liberals.

[Bereta_Eder]

When there's action, there is reaction.