Space Kings?

[GePap]

One of the common iudeas in a lot of science fiction, both good and bad SciFi is the notion of some sort of feudal monarchic system being the government of human space in the future. Yet is this at all realistic? No, I don't mean realisitc in the sense of "is FTL travel realistic?". I mean, given what we know today of human society, does the notion of a spacefering society ruled by a feudal system make sense?

I say no. Personally, I think the basic societal needs of a space society (at a minimum, an indusrial and information revolutions) would create the sort of society in which an aistocracy would have little if any chance of coming into being, and the idea of making executive power based on bloodline absurd.

Anyone here think that a space monarchy is possible?

[Nubclear]

Re: Space Kings?

Copycat thread

[DRoseDARs]

3 were posted at 01:07:36am
1 was posted at 01:07:37am
Last one posted at 01:10:52am

I nominate this thread as the one that is spared. (Not a copycat thread, just funky server behaviour.)

To legitimize this one, here are the on-topic posts made in the other bastard duplicate threads:

Spiffor wrote:
Space monarchy could be possible, but would require several things:

- a ruler who has a high charisma or a high traditional legitimacy (looooong bloodline). His function would be to unite a probably loose confederation behind him. A united democracy would be likely to fight too many secessionist wars, whereas a king could avoid them, if he's recognized as a perfectly legitimate ruler by the population.

- dysfunctionments in a former space democracy (internal wars, safety issues), which will make the people glad to see a stable and firm monarchic power rise to power.

- either a good communication / transportation system should exist, or a wide autonomy should be given to planteray viceroys. In this case, the monarch would have to be wise enough not to demand too much to the individual planets.

- Of course, for any united political entity to exist, there must be a common enemy the people think they have to fight together.

Worthingtons wrote:
As Technology advances it becomes more posisble to control and oppress your people. As Capitalism develops specialisation on job basis becomes more possible.

So it's feasable that the American system could advance to such a point where it reverses, and by the space age we end up with a feudal system.

Azazel wrote:
Hardly so.

But it's great that you've mentioned FTL travel, because without it, and with long range space ships looking how they look by visionaries ( not SciFi writers ) today, a new society will probably spring on long voyages on mammoth spaceships. Cryo chambers will fill most of the traveling time, if they'll be created ( And I think they will, with some 85% certainty. I still remember that fricking unfreezing frog. ), but still, months or years on agregate of space travel with a group of a couple of thousands of people secluded from the rest of humanity can create some mighty amazing results.

[Worthingtons]

Why is this one so special, i mean it's only on 3 posts?

[VetLegion]

How much executive power are we talking about?

Certainly there would have to be some sort of meritocracy designed not to make the best and brightest the enemies of the regime but to instead integrate them into regime: Merit Lordships and such.

Space monarchy in the universe of Miles Vorkosigan does not sound unconvincing but social and political backgound are not explained in much detail so it is diffucult to say how plausible the thing is.

The Dune type monarchy is more unplausible to me, but not completely improbable.

[VetLegion]

wrong edit button

[Starchild]

pfff, we'd be lucky if the technologies that let us thrive in space even keep us recognisably human. Forget about having a recognisable form of government.

[JohnT]

I think that one of the reasons why feudal empires show up in space operas is because it is a handy device for an author who needs a few movers and shakers in their novel, a person who can say "do this" and this is done. Kingships fit the need rather nicely, unlike messy Democracies where people have to build coalitions and such.

I do think, however, that to build up an interstellar system of government, each of the individual planets would almost have to have a planetary government of some sort to send representatives to this Congress. Depending upon any interstellar Constitutions, it could very well be possible that some of the planets could develop into monarchies.

[Worthingtons]

Originally posted by VetLegion
wrong edit button

Surely you're taking the piss ?

[Sava]

I think it's more likely that some kind of corporate system will govern interplanetary travel... with some "board of directors" much like a Soviet polut bureau (spelling?) and some CEO who is basically a dictator. It will be an authoritarian system, but the democratic government (whose leaders are corporate scum) won't call it that.

[:) Smiley]

Government? I doubt that there would be any government of the normal sort in space, after all, wouldn't escaping governance be one of the primary reasons people eventually head out to other worlds?

[Sava]

Originally posted by Smiley
Government? I doubt that there would be any government of the normal sort in space, after all, wouldn't escaping governance be one of the primary reasons people eventually head out to other worlds?

It won't be like the Western Frontier of America's past. Anyone with a wagon could have ventured West. But with space, only governments and rich corporations will be able to afford to get into space. I doubt you will have people heading to a "New World" or whatnot. I'm sure most space travel will be either science, military, or industrial related.

[:) Smiley]

Perhaps at first only govt's and rich companies could do it, but the question is would they? Neither has and motivation to do it, as we're proven by the languishing of both national and commercial space programs today.

I could see religious groups or wealthy individuals doing it though as the costs drop with improved tech, and later on as costs drop it'll be individuals.

It'll sort of be like the colonizing of America. First you got government-backed exploration, then you got corporate ventures, then religious settlements, then individual migrations.

[Urban Ranger]

Why not?

It takes only a powerful admiral to make himself (or herself) ruler for life.

[GePap]

Originally posted by JohnT
I think that one of the reasons why feudal empires show up in space operas is because it is a handy device for an author who needs a few movers and shakers in their novel, a person who can say "do this" and this is done. Kingships fit the need rather nicely, unlike messy Democracies where people have to build coalitions and such.

I do think, however, that to build up an interstellar system of government, each of the individual planets would almost have to have a planetary government of some sort to send representatives to this Congress. Depending upon any interstellar Constitutions, it could very well be possible that some of the planets could develop into monarchies.

I certaily agree with the first paragraph. As for the second, I myself find it difficult to think how a space colony would turn out to be a feudal monarchyunless setting such a thing up was one of the aims of the colonists: after all, people would be coming from a place were popular politics would be common, and one would assume they would carry with them the institutions of their home along, and feudal monarchy would not be among them.

There is somehting else though, becuase another way to have a story were a few people can make all the decisions is a despotic government, or an absolute one (this differs in that while a single individual holds executive power and more, there is no such thing as an aristocracy, and power is not necessarily passed along by blood): but writers want a form of government seen as legitimate (notice how there are always good loyal subjects and servants) and a despotic system (which is certainly possible in the days of mass politics) makes such characters hard to believe, at least for the democratic mind.

interesting question: did SciFi writers of the communist block have such a "beneign" view of space monarchs? Most western scifi writers I have read have had some form of space monarch in one story or another, but the only communist block writer I ever read, Lem, has no space kings.