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WinXP SP2 delayed; anti-trust issues to arise?

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  • #91
    Imran! Are you really in favor of anti-competitive monopolization?


    I'm in favor of the consumer winning in the end. And I don't mind a monopoly in an area where there is a natural tendancy towards monopoly.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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    • #92
      Only a tragically blinded fool could believe that Microsoft won the browser wars through technical superiority.


      Utter bull****. IE did not gain superiority until Netscape totally messed up with version 4. In the end, IE won out because it was the best browser.
      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #93
        Indeed. People seem to forgot that Netscape was also being bundled by almost every ISP at the time (including mine).

        People basically got a choice between IE and Netscape, and the marketshare speaks for itself...
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • #94
          Asher, Netscape was not free, if you recall. The "free of charge" nature of IE combined with illegal licensing provision made IE win. This is the record established in court.

          As to the "freedom to choose" other OS's, Microsoft stands convicted of being a monopoly in the PC OS. They didn't even appeal this issue to the Supreme's.

          I am surprised there are people who seriously argue this issue. The issues were argued in court. Microsoft lost.
          http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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          • #95
            Microsoft stands convicted of being a monopoly in the PC OS.
            You don't get convicted for being a monopoly.

            Sorry for being pedantic, but it's a very important distinction...

            I am surprised there are people who seriously argue this issue. The issues were argued in court. Microsoft lost.
            Not regarding Internet Explorer -- why do you think it's still bundled? Why do you think they permitted WMP to be bundled still? Ditto with the firewall?

            The issue has been argued in cost, and Microsoft certainly won. If they had lost, they'd have been told to stop bundling. Clearly, it's a legal practice.

            So you are right, it is surprising so many people here still support Jackson's viewpoint even though his own colleagues discredited him and basically called him a moron, then overturned his decisions.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #96
              Microsoft stands convicted of being a monopoly in the PC OS


              'Convicted' means you are guilty of something. It is not illegal to be a monopoly.

              I am surprised there are people who seriously argue this issue. The issues were argued in court. Microsoft lost.


              I take it then you believe O.J. is innocent?

              I'm surprised that there are people that think simply because a court of law ruled on an issue that the issue is dead. Btw, MS lost on other issues, not this one.

              After all, the issues of abortion were argued in court. Pro-life side lost.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

              Comment


              • #97
                Asher, the only difference between a criminal case and a civil case is the burden of proof. The elements of proof are fairly much the same. The court system found that Microsoft was a monopoly and "guilty" of "illegal"monopolization" under the Antitrust laws.

                I agree, the Gov't did not prevail on the tying issue. However, inclusion of IE in its OS for the purpose of driving Netscape out of business was critical to the finding of "illegal" monopolization.
                http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                  Imran! Are you really in favor of anti-competitive monopolization?


                  I'm in favor of the consumer winning in the end. And I don't mind a monopoly in an area where there is a natural tendancy towards monopoly.
                  hahahah. computer programs are the most unnatural monopoly ever devised. it has probably the lowest barrier to entry of any high profit industry ever. microsoft's monopoly isnt natural. u act like its the phone company or power company from 100 years ago where it was deemed inefficient to have competition.

                  MS's monopoly was actively acquired.

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                  • #99
                    computer programs are the most unnatural monopoly ever devised. it has probably the lowest barrier to entry of any high profit industry ever. microsoft's monopoly isnt natural. u act like its the phone company or power company from 100 years ago where it was deemed inefficient to have competition.


                    The OS market is a natural monopoly. It is foolish, IMO, to think otherwise. Without a standard the computer industry does not exist in such a large capacity.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                      computer programs are the most unnatural monopoly ever devised. it has probably the lowest barrier to entry of any high profit industry ever. microsoft's monopoly isnt natural. u act like its the phone company or power company from 100 years ago where it was deemed inefficient to have competition.


                      The OS market is a natural monopoly. It is foolish, IMO, to think otherwise. Without a standard the computer industry does not exist in such a large capacity.
                      basic levels of communication could easily facilitate many competitors in the OS market. .txt, html, etc. its really not hard in the least. and its utter absurdity to think that cuz MS goes around making things incompatible w/ the last versions or other software that this is somehow the only way it had to be.

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                      • basic levels of communication could easily facilitate many competitors in the OS market.


                        And it'd always end up with ONE standard in the end. Windows was the one picked. Before that, it was DOS. Without one standard things fall apart. It was kinda like the video card industry before DirectX. Before then every card had its own drivers. 3dfx had Glide, a few cards had Direct3d, etc. It was chaos. The PC 3-d game market was stagnating because of it. Glide was becoming a standard slowly to deal with this, until Microsoft came in with DirectX (which incorporated a lot of Glide). After that the market took off, because you had a standard! The 3-d driver was a natural monopoly.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          basic levels of communication could easily facilitate many competitors in the OS market.


                          And it'd always end up with ONE standard in the end. Windows was the one picked. Before that, it was DOS. Without one standard things fall apart. It was kinda like the video card industry before DirectX. Before then every card had its own drivers. 3dfx had Glide, a few cards had Direct3d, etc. It was chaos. The PC 3-d game market was stagnating because of it. Glide was becoming a standard slowly to deal with this, until Microsoft came in with DirectX (which incorporated a lot of Glide). After that the market took off, because you had a standard! The 3-d driver was a natural monopoly.
                          Bill was the better businessman. that is not being debated. but this monopoly is not naturally occuring, this isnt the ****ing tide. Bill went out and acquired this thing himself. He used incompatibility among other things as a weapon. whereas u assume they are a natural occurance.

                          the game plays both ways mind u. Bill tried to tap into AOL by letting msn messanger msg aol ppl. aol quickly redid their program to disallow that. its not natural that that happened. its the two companies fighting.

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                          • Asher:

                            Did you know you can download an Internet Browser from the command prompt? It's called:

                            C:\>FTP ftp.microsoft.com

                            Change to the IE directory and type:

                            FTP>Get ie5setup.exe
                            FTP>Bye

                            Run that file and VOILA! I downloaded a browser without having one in the first place.

                            Comment


                            • but this monopoly is not naturally occuring


                              Yes, that it is.

                              Bill went out and acquired this thing himself.


                              So, simply because he went out and grabbed the position as the #1 OS, that proves it isn't a natural monopoly? Are you on drugs or something?

                              If you have 4 incompatible OSs, eventually businesses will start to favor one. This one OS will eventually become the 80% market share (or whatever). Businesses like to have one standard between themselves.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • And how many n00bs (the ones who would use something already installed even if a much better one was available for download) would know how to do that?

                                I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).

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