A detailed list of the bad things Bush did while in presidency

[Spiffor]

I am definitely not a rabid enemy of Bush foaming at the mouth. I appreciate his attempts to put AIDS on the international level as a serious problem. I appreciate him considering sending a peacekeeping force in Liberia. I appreciate him using a demand oriented economic policy (and I loathe the EU for not having done the same when the opportunity finally presented itself )

I wasn't aware the Senate rejected Kyoto before Bush's position about it. In this case, it is the whole American political system that is to blame for its vicious delay put on any international attempt to deal with global warming, and not only Bush.

However, Bush is the incarnation of doing nothing when it comes to energy and to oil consumption. Under his reign, nothing significant has been done for the US to reduce its production of greenhouse gases. Worse, even when there was a possibility to convince the public to drop some of its oil consumption (with the Saudi connections with Al Qaeda), Bush preferred to look for other sources including in the natural reserves, rather than to push for a reduction of oil consumption.

Coming from the most polluting country on Earth, and coming from a country that pollutes much more than its European economic counterpart, it is unforgivable. It is undoubtedly a "bad thing" Bush has done.

[Sava]

Sava can only scream out Ad Hominems

but less chill on the personal insults...

Sorry if people misinterpretted my posts as being personal, I didn't direct them at any poly member.

Shi, I think you have caught MrFun's victim complex.

Defeated? So you are saying Ming, Imran, and everyone else who agreed with me are wrong?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Don't drag me into this!

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Don't drag me into this!

Sorry Imran... but Shi says we are wrong.

[Shi Huangdi]

"Sorry if people misinterpretted my posts as being personal, I didn't direct them at any poly member."



Well, Ming has said chill, so I'll let Sava's words here speak for themselves. Thanks Sava, you make it so easy!

[Spiffor]

Am I the only one who imagines JohnMcLeod's face when he'll discover what has become of his thread ?

[Sava]

Shi, please stop trying to start a flame war. I stated my opinions on why Kyoto was bad, you disagreed, and I made fun of conspiracy theorists. Let it go.

[/end threadjack]

The ultimate solution for the problems that Kyoto aimed to solve has to do with nations created domestic policies that will deal with the problems. Sure, countries with such close connections should work together, but there isn't some worldwide one-size-fits-all solution to solving environmental problems. An international treaty that attempts to outline solutions is a bad idea. The problem is complex and nations should work to solve their own internal matters and work together when needed.

[Chemical Ollie]

I find it kinda redicilous when GWB tells Iran: "Why do you need nuclear power when you have so much oil?", like if he had never even heard of Kyoto. And what's the deal if they get nukes from their nuclear power? Think of Pakistan, the real home of the Talibans. If they didn't have nukes, they would be toast since 9/12 2001. I remember the Bush election campaign, when a journalist asked GWB if he knew the name of the military dictator of Pakistan. GWB didn't. Then, just a few months later, the dictator was suddenly GWB's best friend.

The best way to keep US army out of your country is to get nukes. Just look at Sovjet Union (duh), China, North Korea and Pakistan. You never have to use them, you only have to apply the MAD rules. One device hidden away is enough. Saddam didn't have that.

[Ming]

Spiffor... You claim that Bush has done nothing since the Kyoto Treaty was dismissed...

But may I ask you a question (because I really don't know)... What has you country done since then? Have all they done is bemoan the loss of the treaty... or have they since gone out and made changes in your country that actually help?

While I will admit that Bush has done squat... (yeah, weak and lame milage agreements for new cars don't count for much)... I haven't heard of a lot of action on the other side of the big pond either.

[Shi Huangdi]

In fact, lets take a look at Sava's argument on this thread:

and people who believe this garbage are dumb...

It was a lame attempt by Greenie-Euros to enact an effective environmentally-friendly treaty.

But according to the dumb, the Euro's are conspiring to destroy America's economy.

Yup... what I find hilarious is what Shi pointed out... how many people believe that Kyoto was a conspiracy to destroy America's economy....

aw don't cry Shi...

anyways, dumb isn't the right way to describe people that think Kyoto was a plot to destory America's economy... tinfoil hat-wearing dip****s sounds more appropriate...

So we have here for Sava's argument:

NO IT WAS THE GREENIES

YOU'RE DUMB
YOU'RE DUMB
YOU'RE DUMB


I don't participate in debates a much as I used to, but I am noticing a pattern here. When we had the debate over whether Eastern Europe was actually socialist or not, Sava did the same exact thing of repeteadly stating his original bald assertation only varying his posts by the insults he threw in.

Obviously what I was doing was speculating on the intention on the backers of Kyoto, my statement can't be proven or disproven either way. Same way with speculating on Bush intentions for the war- no way to affirmatively prove what is in someone's mind. You'll have to pardon me for being suspicious of their intentions however, there is widespread feeling throughout the world that has America has become way too powerful and that US hegemony is not something good.


Ah well, enough of this side thing. I'm done, feel free to reply to this and take the last word if you like.

[Japher]

That's Sava though!

Your Dumb
Your Dumb'
Bite ME
Accusation
Worthy Comment and maybe a good argument with some factual backing
Your Dumb
I'm Drunk Now

[Sava]

Originally posted by Ming
Spiffor... You claim that Bush has done nothing since the Kyoto Treaty was dismissed...

But may I ask you a question (because I really don't know)... What has you country done since then? Have all they done is bemoan the loss of the treaty... or have they since gone out and made changes in your country that actually help?

While I will admit that Bush has done squat... (yeah, weak and lame milage agreements for new cars don't count for much)... I haven't heard of a lot of action on the other side of the big pond either.

Good point Ming. It seems as if these small nations want to become policy makers in the US. It's really very silly. I doubt these people are informed enough about America to form an effective solution. And this is the reality about Kyoto. It was created by people who wanted environmentally friendly policies, but ultimately failed because they tried to create a one-size-fits-all solution without having an adequate idea about industry, and how to combat polluting forms of it.

And despite what some want you to think, that these people are all evil America hating eurocoms that want to destroy the US economy, their intentions and motives are quite clear.

[Sava]

Your Dumb
Your Dumb'
Bite ME
Accusation
Worthy Comment and maybe a good argument with some factual backing
Your Dumb
I'm Drunk Now

You see Japher, it's wonderful people like yourself that understand me.

[Japher]

It's exactly what I do, without the "Worthy Comment and maybe a good argument with some factual backing"

[Az]

Bush's main power is the fact there is noone to replace him. Really.

on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give him 3. and honestly, I put those 3 only because I don't want to be part of the " BNUSH IS STUPID AND USA R EVIL!!!!!!!!111111" mudslinging monkey school. His reactions to events were fair, but I don't see any positive ACTION from him.

Maybe it's different in america than it is here.