A detailed list of the bad things Bush did while in presidency

[rah]

I think not supporting a flawed plan that could have contributed to the downward spiral the economy was in was one of the good things that took courage. Instead of agreeing to it and then trying to backslide on it like some of the current signatories.

[MrFun]

I can wait until someone more knowledgeable about the environment and pollution, to answer my questions.

[MattH]

Originally posted by Ming


Thanks for proving my point.

When it comes to the rabid foaming at the mouth bush bashers... real discussion is a waste of time.

And the same holds true for bush is god bunch.

So why don't you post something balanced

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by MrFun

Doesn't it take a long period of time before pollution begins to have an impact?
Isn't today's greenhouse effect due to the previous two centuries of increasing pollution?

Well you're partly right. Growth is a factor too, though. The pollution of 100 years ago counts not nearly as much in the equation as the pollution of 20 years ago. Just because there was so much more of it. And no...it doesn't really take that long a time to take effect. Greenhouse gasses block heat escaping the Earth after only a few years in the atmosphere, and oil, if spilled, has a pretty darn immediate efect.

Asmodean

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Asmodean


Well you're partly right. Growth is a factor too, though. The pollution of 100 years ago counts not nearly as much in the equation as the pollution of 20 years ago. Just because there was so much more of it. And no...it doesn't really take that long a time to take effect. Greenhouse gasses block heat escaping the Earth after only a few years in the atmosphere, and oil, if spilled, has a pretty darn immediate efect.

Asmodean

thanks

[Japher]

So push is responisble for oil spills?

The Kyoto deal was bad news, thats why he didn't sign it. Yet, there is still tons of money flowing out the government and into grants to fund alternative energy research... how many other countries are contributing as much to the solution as we are? Granted we cause most of the problem, but we wouldn't be able to solve it unless we did... sneaky little Catch-22

[Spiffor]

MrFun and RAH:
I'm not claiming Kyoto was perfect by any standard. I'm not claiming Kyoto would have saved the world of all the climatic catastrophes that await us.

But Kyoto was at last the first step in the right direction, which is to consider global warming as a serious, planetary problem that requires action and not only talk.

Because of Bush's stubbornness, this attempt has been ruined of all credibility. An international agreement will inevitably be reached at some point in the future, but the beginning of any significant planetary effort against global warming has been postponed to God knows when, because of Bush's decision.

And in the meantime, greenhouse gases will continue to run galore, and the climatic hazards will continue to increase.

Bush certainly did not create the upcoming climatic catastrophes. However, he contributed to worsen them. The cost of this will be thousands of lives (quite a few of them have already been claimed this year) And that is unforgivable .

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Even worse, despite the existence of technologies to reduce the production of greenhouse gases (hybrid or fuel efficient cars,

Do they not have car companies in Europe?

[Japher]

Oh, so the rest of the world really can't do anythin without the aide and assent of the US... I see.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Japher
Oh, so the rest of the world really can't do anythin without the aide and assent of the US... I see.

I only wish we had that much power.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Japher
Oh, so the rest of the world really can't do anythin without the aide and assent of the US... I see.

The rest of the world can't really fight efficiently global warming when its first contributor (the US) not only gives them the finger, but increases oil consumption because of the energy crisis in California.

Do they not have car companies in Europe?

Yes, and these car companies produce smaller, more fuel-efficient cars than in the US. Besides, Europe is more advanced than the US for reduction of fuel use in most parts of the industry. But despite the existence of this technology, it hasn't been adopted in the US. Go figure...

[Ming]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Bush certainly did not create the upcoming climatic catastrophes. However, he contributed to worsen them. The cost of this will be thousands of lives (quite a few of them have already been claimed this year) And that is unforgivable .

Yep... blame Bush for thousands of deaths for not going along with a stupid and poorly constructed treaty that wasn't even a good start at solving the problem.

What was unforgivable is the bunch of morons who put together the treaty thinking that it could solve the problem, and then bashing people who saw it for what it was... a bad idea that didn't solve the problem.

Standing up and saying no was a lot more honest and good then going along and make believing that it would make a big difference.

[Asmodean]

Actually, Spiffor, allthough I am generally very!! pro environment protection, I'd have to say that Bush did the right thing in not signing Kyoto. He did it for the wrong reasons, though.

The fact that Kyoto allows for trading of quotas from one country to another makes it not worth the paper it is written on. Developed countries can continue to produce greenhouse gasses to their hearts content, with qoutas bought from third world countries, which in turn prevents them from developing their industries. Kyoto is a step in the WRONG direction. It does nothing for global environment, but does a lot for halting developement in third world countries.

Asmodean

[Japher]

It is much easier for smaller countries to adhere to the restrictions the Kyoto Pact wanted to make. Countries with lower GDPs, Production rates, size (allowing for ease in PT est.), etc... If the US did what they wanted the whole world would be in an economic wasteland.. not to mention the lack of food that this would cause, and with everyone hot under the collar about GMs...

[Odin]

The CEOs of Big Oil should be tarred, feathered, flogged, and burned at the stake with gasoline as the flammable material.

Good posts, Spiff.

Ming, just admit it, YOUR WRONG!