Replace the constitution :rolleyes:

[Berzerker]

Now Berz, that's not fair. WW1 was bloodier than Vietnam, and Wilson was probably as bad as LBJ

Not for the US, but I may be wrong.

Sava -

Lincoln was good. Preserved the union from treasonous crackers.

FDR was good, perhaps the best president.

Johnson... I'm torn on him. I honestly don't know enough about his domestic accomplishments to make an accurate rating. I give him an F on foreign policy just for Vietnam.

All of which doesn't refute that these clowns got us into the nation's 3 bloodiest wars.

Lincoln - saved the northernors from the embarassment of southernors wanting out of the party.

FDR - got us into a war we could have sat out and waited to develop the bomb. Result? Lot's of dead Americans.

Johnson - His lies got another 58,000 Americans killed. F-

[David Floyd]

Not for the US, but I may be wrong.

There were approximately 115,000 US deaths in WW1.

[Sava]

Originally posted by David Floyd
I mean attacking Uboats, escorting convoys, radioing Uboat positions to the Brits, giving military equipment to the Brits, placing embargos on the Japanese, etc.

So we shouldn't help our allies. Gotcha!

Japan probably couldn't have even invaded and held Hawaii, much less the Continental US. Don't be ridiculous.

After they were finished raping China, where the hell do you think they'd go? Who is the biggest threat to their Empire? USA!!! duhhhh

Hitler at no point had anywhere near the capability to defeat the RAF and RN, and invade England.

Because of US help

Not the defense of the UK.

Yeah, read a few books and learn about the sheer immensity of support the US gave Britain before officially entering the war. The US was pumping out Liberty ships and supporting the UK. Without the US, the UK would have been slowly starved into submission

Oh, absolutely not. But I won't feel sorry for the Soviets, one of the most brutal regimes of all time.

You don't have to feel sorry for Stalin, but rather the millions of innocent Russian that were killed by the Nazis

Japan getting the bomb?

The US sunk German U-boats loaded with U-235. German scientists were sharing nuclear technologies with Japan

As for Germany, the Germans were nowhere near building the bomb, or even being able to build the technology they would need to build more technology in order to build an atomic bomb. Hitler didn't care about it, and put his resources into other areas. Germany had no uranium or plutonium, and the British destroyed the last of the heavy water supplies in raids.

Russia got the bomb in 1947. Germany was ahead of Russia in bomb development. Without defeating the Nazis, they would have gotten the bomb.

They were certainly threats, just not to the United States. Neither had the capability to invade the US. To build that capability, both would have had to conquer their intended empires, and build up for decades. Of course, if the US got the atomic bomb before this point, which is virtually certain, then the game would have been up anyway.

Oh great, so we could have had a Cold War against the Nazis rather than defeating those murderous *******s. That's a world I'd rather live in. Let me ask you Floyd, do you think the world be better off if the US had followed your advice?

Hell, the Germans couldn't even invade England, and the Japanese would have been hard pressed to go after India and Australia, so I fail to see your point.

The Germans didn't invade England because they were fought back by the US and US-supported Britain.

[GePap]

A new constitutional convention would be fun. It's about due.

[Odin]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Japan probably couldn't have even invaded and held Hawaii, much less the Continental US. Don't be ridiculous.

Pearl Harbor

Hitler at no point had anywhere near the capability to defeat the RAF and RN, and invade England.

That is because we helped them, Einstien.

Japan getting the bomb?

As for Germany, the Germans were nowhere near building the bomb, or even being able to build the technology they would need to build more technology in order to build an atomic bomb. Hitler didn't care about it, and put his resources into other areas. Germany had no uranium or plutonium, and the British destroyed the last of the heavy water supplies in raids.



They were certainly threats, just not to the United States. Neither had the capability to invade the US. To build that capability, both would have had to conquer their intended empires, and build up for decades. Of course, if the US got the atomic bomb before this point, which is virtually certain, then the game would have been up anyway.

Hell, the Germans couldn't even invade England, and the Japanese would have been hard pressed to go after India and Australia, so I fail to see your point.

Both Japan and Germany were working on the Bomb. I have relatives in Norway who helped sabotage thier facillities in '44, bad BAM. They certainly were threats to the US. Would you of liked to take on The axis powers when they conqured ALL of Eurasia, Australia, the Pacific, and Northern Africa? We would of had to of dealt with them eventually, it was just a question of when.


Isolationist = WUSS!!!

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
If you want to replace it, go to some little island and set yourself up.
Cuba comes to mind.

This actually made me laugh. Repetition humour and self-derision i s'pose

[Imran Siddiqui]

Pearl Harbor

How does Pearl Harber = invasion anyway?

Russia got the bomb in 1947. Germany was ahead of Russia in bomb development. Without defeating the Nazis, they would have gotten the bomb.

Who knows... after the nuclear research base was destroyed in Norway, IIRC, Hitler turned his attention to rockets and dismissed atomic bombs.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by GePap
A new constitutional convention would be fun. It's about due.

With your pathetic politician generation, the result would be rather sad. We just had our own constitutional convention in the EU. And the document produced has nothing like a vision you'd expect from a real constitution

[David Floyd]

So we shouldn't help our allies. Gotcha!

We weren't allied with the UK at the time

After they were finished raping China, where the hell do you think they'd go?

Most of them would be on occupation duty throughout their empire, especially a place with half a billion people called China

Who is the biggest threat to their Empire? USA!!! duhhhh

Why would the US be a threat to the GEACPS?

Yeah, read a few books and learn about the sheer immensity of support the US gave Britain before officially entering the war. The US was pumping out Liberty ships and supporting the UK. Without the US, the UK would have been slowly starved into submission

Sorry, the UK defeated the Uboats, not the US. The Battle of the Atlantic was won in 1942, pretty much by the UK and things such as the ASDIC.

Because of US help

Sorry, the Battle of Britain was over in September of 1940.

You don't have to feel sorry for Stalin, but rather the millions of innocent Russian that were killed by the Nazis

Stalin probably would have killed half of them anyway, but either way, this isn't any reason for the US to join the war.

The US sunk German U-boats loaded with U-235. German scientists were sharing nuclear technologies with Japan

Oh, Japan might have built a bomb - around 1960

Russia got the bomb in 1947.

Sorry, 1949. And this only because of espionage in the Manhatten Project.

Germany was ahead of Russia in bomb development.

Sure, but they did not have the benefit of agents in the Manhatten Project or the US government, at least not agents in a position to help them. Not to mention the fact that Hitler did not make it a priority.

Oh great, so we could have had a Cold War against the Nazis rather than defeating those murderous *******s.

We had a Cold War with the Soviets, anyway

The Germans didn't invade England because they were fought back by the US and US-supported Britain.

No, they didn't invade England because the RAF defeated the Luftwaffe, and because the Kriegsmarine didn't have enough amphibious assets to mount an invasion, anyway.

[Japher]

replacing the Constitution would be sad, it's a kewl boat

Really, replacing the contitution is dumb, what IS good about it is that it has the power to be changed, and I do feel that there are somethings that need to be changed, added to, or deleted from it... but for the most part it is a good basis and document for a democracy....

[Odin]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Pearl Harbor

How does Pearl Harber = invasion anyway?

It does't, but it was an act of war.

DUH

As I said before, Isolationist = WUSS!

[Berzerker]

There were approximately 115,000 US deaths in WW1.

Damn, oh well, I'm sure Wilson was on his list of admirable presidents.

[Sava]

Originally posted by David Floyd
We weren't allied with the UK at the time

Debatable... perhaps not official military allies... but they were our friends, asked for our help, and we delivered.

Most of them would be on occupation duty throughout their empire, especially a place with half a billion people called China

They would have exterminated most of the Chinese. Do you recall the rape of Nanking?

Why would the US be a threat to the GEACPS?

We were perceived as one

Sorry, the UK defeated the Uboats, not the US. The Battle of the Atlantic was won in 1942, pretty much by the UK and things such as the ASDIC.

The US was involved from day 1... September 3rd, 1939... half of Britains food and two-thirds of the UK's raw materials were imports. http://www.iwm.org.uk/online/atlantic/overview.htm

Sorry, the Battle of Britain was over in September of 1940.

WIth the help of American, Polish, Czech, and South African pilots. Britain had only a few hundred airmen in 1940.

Stalin probably would have killed half of them anyway, but either way, this isn't any reason for the US to join the war.

That's right, and as a good Christian, you believe we have no obligation to stop mass murder on a global scale.

Oh, Japan might have built a bomb - around 1960

Sooner than the Russians.

Sorry, 1949. And this only because of espionage in the Manhatten Project.

Oops, I made a mistake. But what's to say the Germans or Japanese wouldn't have been able to do the same?

Sure, but they did not have the benefit of agents in the Manhatten Project or the US government, at least not agents in a position to help them. Not to mention the fact that Hitler did not make it a priority.

Had Hitler had more time, there's no telling what he would have been able to build.

We had a Cold War with the Soviets, anyway

And it's a miracle we're all still here. Personally, I don't like the idea of a 50 year long nuclear standoff with a Nazi Empire... but maybe that's part of David Floyd's ideal world.

No, they didn't invade England because the RAF defeated the Luftwaffe, and because the Kriegsmarine didn't have enough amphibious assets to mount an invasion, anyway.

Britain would have been starved into submission.

[Imran Siddiqui]

It does't, but it was an act of war.

Well the point was Japan could not have invaded Hawaii... you answered Pearl Harbor. That's not a satisfactory answer by any means, because PH wasn't an invasion, was it?

If you think the question was wrong, then say so, don't just say Pearl Harbor and expect it to answer it!

[Sava]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It does't, but it was an act of war.

Well the point was Japan could not have invaded Hawaii... you answered Pearl Harbor. That's not a satisfactory answer by any means, because PH wasn't an invasion, was it?

If you think the question was wrong, then say so, don't just say Pearl Harbor and expect it to answer it!

Help me Imran!! Help me convince Floyd that he is wrong about WW2.