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I think another President might have been more open to compromises in some of those points especially Environment, World Court and Missile Defence
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No, those are the ones about which you wish an American president would be more open to compromise.
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891 -
"It would never have been ratified."
What makes you so sure?
"There was broad support in the States for modest increases in defense spending"
Until the budget went down the sewer.
"Which is why it was strongly supported by Clinton?"
How much money?
Anyway, if you are right it just further confirms my view. It would be funny if Bush loses in 04, but for political reasons, I have to say four more years!“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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I can't tell whether you're a European nationalist or a European opportunist.Anyway, if you are right it just further confirms my view. It would be funny if Bush loses in 04, but for political reasons, I have to say four more years!
I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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European pragmatist.“Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)Comment
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Powell went along with the neo-cons because he was too weak to stick to his guns. He's little more than a "yes" man.Originally posted by Berzerker
Sava -
Do you have something to back that up? If you're going to badmouth him, at least make it more than an ad hominem.
Speer:
As much as you pretend, you still don't speak for the black community. You are so out of touch with reality it's funny.
Also, about Powell, where was the massive coalition building? Most people knock Bush for not being able to build a real coalition (sorry Azjerbaijan and Micronesia don't count), but Powell is the diplomat. I think he's weak and ineffective.To us, it is the BEAST.Comment
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Of course I had wished, and maybe you better had wished tooOriginally posted by DanS
No, those are the ones about which you wish an American president would be more open to compromise.
After Clinton, (cooperating in some important issues like Environmentalism with other countries Kyoto Treaty and the like), Bushs unilateralism was like a very cold shower
Last edited by Proteus_MST; August 4, 2003, 18:10.Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"Comment
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There may have been international dissenters, but the dissent at home was far more damaging to Clinton. Recall that we were in the midst of impeachment proceedings at the time and, of course, **** Armey and company thought that the "Operation Desert Fox" was grounds for further impeachment charges.Originally posted by DanS
Clinton and Blair tried and failed to do it in '98, with the dissenters being the same culprits (except Germany was new to the list this time).
(@ Armey, not Dan).
the good reverendComment
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Flash from good ol' Drudge:
The Colin Powell story is a LIE. The conversation referenced by the WP never took place.
But, still, I don't expect him to stay on for the next term (assuming Bush is re-elected).the good reverendComment
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Yep, Powell denies the Washington Post story.
Still, nice Poly debate if nothing else.
BTW, it's now being reported that the Pope will step down if Bush is re-elected.Comment
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What makes you so sure?
I would think the 98-0 vote against in the Senate makes everyone really sure that Kyoto never would have passed.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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There are a couple of points that I have to disagree with in this thread:
1) A lack of coalition building was certainly not Powell's fault. A diplomat has only as much leeway as his president gives him. Powell had no room to bargain, and the intelligence alone was obviously not enough to convince other nations. What do you expect?
2) Rising anti-American sentiment has much more to do with attitude than policy. While many of Bush's policies may have continued under other presidents, Bush and his administration have made it abundantly clear that they don't give a flying **** what anyone else in the world thinks. This simply has not been true of past administrations. It never ceases to amaze me that people are surprised when this results in a negative attitude towards the U.S.
I'm not going to pin it all on Bush. That would be rediculous. People are going to disagree with you, no matter what policy you decide to follow. What I have disliked about this particular administration is the way they have chosen to handle the dissent."Beauty is not in the face...Beauty is a light in the heart." - Kahlil Gibran
"The greatest happiness of life is the conviction that we are loved; loved for ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of ourselves" - Victor Hugo
"It is noble to be good; it is still nobler to teach others to be good -- and less trouble." - Mark TwainComment
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I prefer for Europe to lead the way on this one. Show us how it's done.Of course I had wished, and maybe you better had wished too
Y'all were going to get the cold shower sooner or later. Clinton knew full well the Senate wasn't going to ratify it.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Going to the UN was also about domestic stability. Bush would have had more trouble selling it to Congress and the American people if he did not at least make a fig lif attempt at getting permission from the UN. In the end, Bush got more than he wanted, as the whole excercse served to discredit the UN in many more American's eyes.Originally posted by Sikander
I was against going to the U.N. myself,Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...Comment
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Well, you could begin with copying our technology of fuel efficient cars. Or you could imitate Germany's recylcing policy. Or you could take your electricity from nuclear power like France (nearly no French electricity comes from fossils, which results in much, MUCH less pollution). Or maybe you could adopt efficient mass transit systems in cities other than NY. Or, or, or...Originally posted by DanS
I prefer for Europe to lead the way on this one. Show us how it's done.
The Euros pushed for Kyoto so much because they are mostly ready for it. You have the wealth and the knowledge to imitate us. You only lack the willingness to do so."I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- DisComment
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You forget that Bush had permission from Congress *long* before we went to the United Nations.Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Bush would have had more trouble selling it to Congress and the American people if he did not at least make a fig lif attempt at getting permission from the UN. In the end, Bush got more than he wanted, as the whole excercse served to discredit the UN in many more American's eyes.
He had to follow Blair's lead, 'cuz few Britons (I hear) were zealous about going to Iraq without the UN's approval.the good reverendComment
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