Why can't we attack Bush on real issues?

[Drake Tungsten]

An interesting twist...

Seems the Saudis are trying to get the Bush administration to declassify the redacted portions of the 9/11 report. I didn't see that one coming. Maybe I jumped on Bush a little too soon?

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/07/28/bush.saudis.complaints/index.html

[Meldor]

Just one little historical note on the IQ or civics test to be used to measure a persons right to vote. They were used at one time here in the US not long after the Civil War to keep a class of voters from being able to vote. I would doubt very seriously if you could get anything like that passed anywhere in the US again. Heck, the educational system can't even agree on what types of intelligence tests are valid and who they can be used on. To try and create a civics test that would be fair to all Americans would be next to impossible.

Oh, BTW, the groups that are most cited as being discriminated against in most IQ style tests are most likely to vote Democrat and not Republican (Blacks, Hispanics, ESL). Don't let your "Republicans must be idiots" mantra interfere reality though.

[rev]

Drake,

Right now, the Saudis have nothing to spin. They haven't seen the report, so all they can use to defend themselves is the fact that they've arrested a few people and Mr. Bush has been kind enough to say a few good things about them. (But when Bush calls every other leader his "best friend", that's not surprising.)

If the Saudi sections of the report were declassified, they could at least try to defend themselves. They haven't done too well in this area, though, even when ALL of the evidence is published.

[Defiant]

You have got to be kidding me.

Bush takes office and three months later the stock market collapses(thank you .com's), yea that's his fault. So now he has to fight our new dismal economy inherited by Slick Willy. Of course the September attacks were Bush's fault only because they were planned two years in advance and he should have known about it . You liberal boys are two for two.
Don't forget the great foreign policy by Slick Willy with NK that he did in '94, which Bush smelled out in about a year. Not to mention all the corporate crap going on prior to his taking office.
The statement is correct, Bush is cleaning up all of the d!ckhead's mess.
What has he accomplished besides putting out Slick Willy's fires;
we haven't had another terrorist attack on US soil, cross our fingers.
We are confronting the new NK threat instead of ignoring it and then having it bite us in the ass later,
we have Bin Laden on the run, (harder to set up terrorist plans if you are in the run, acceptable until he is caught),
economy is showing signs of life again, corporate leaders are going to jail(not enough yet, but a start), finished off a dictator in Iraq with 163 casualties(even one is a tragedy) but for the task at hand, it is very low, we have a presence in the ME where we have Iran trying to answer serious nuclear questions(along with holding terrorists, they first said they didn't have),
Syria is backing off of its terrorist support, ME peace process seems to have a chance(for the first time in a long time.), Saudi is watching her P's and Q's.

Yes, you have 15/19 terrorists coming from Saudi but to attack Saudi would envite about a Billion muslim terrorists and if you are not willing to kill them, then attacking Mecca is not the answer.
Yea, I guess he is doing pretty sh!tty.


Then you have guys like Galis saying we should give IQ tests to Americans to see if they are smart enough to vote. Do you actually understand how ridiculous that statment sounds, talk about prejudice.
Boy, it must be proud to be a liberal these days.(keep grabbing at those straws)

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Always someone else's fault, right defiant.

[Sava]

Defiant, the economy isn't suffering just because of Dot Com's... And BUSH IS TO BLAME, for keeping it stagnant with his economy killing deficits and jobless creating policies.

The only things he inherited from Slick Willy was the most modern military in the world, and the first budget surpluses in years. Most Bushies will cite that the war and terrorism are too blame for the deficits... but the tax cuts contribute more to the budget shortfall than anything else. It's that same kind of dumbass mentality like, "Reagan paved the way for the boom in the 90's... "

The 9-11 attacks weren't Bush's fault. But do yourself a favor and read "Bush at War" by Bob Woodward, or some of the independent reports on 9-11. You obviously need to.

The whole notion that we are "putting out Slick Willy's fires" is stupid. I'm not a Clinton fan, but I will put to rest your Fez-like attacks on him. If you want to play that game, most everything wrong in today's world can be traced to Reagan.

[Arrian]

The President has little to do with the economy. Executive branch policies can have some effect, and to date I'd say the limited effect the Bushies have had is negative (but honesty it's tough to tell. Even the economists don't really know).

It irritates me when the President gets blamed or praised for changes in a cyclical capitalist economy. Does no one pay attention to history?

For me, that's all beside the point. What matters to me actually tends to be foreign policy, because it doesn't really seem to matter who's in office from a domestic standpoint. The two parties manage to cancel each other out mostly, and otherwise fumble about passing largely meaningless laws and such. So F.P. is what holds my attention.

And in that arena, Bush & Co. have been an abyssmal failure.

The aforementioned lack of any coherent Democratic F.P. plan is a problem for me, but since the Bushies have been so atrocious, I'll take just about any replacement.

-Arrian

[Defiant]

Larry,
You're an outsider. Enough said.

Sava,
I know you are a Clinton lover, up until a year ago or so. You're right, .com's are not the sole reason, having the trade towers do down also help to crush the economy, can you at least agree to that fact. You have a 2.2 trillion budget, 1.4 trillion of it is on social programs, I highly doubt the common liberal "tax cuts" are causing our defecit, more reliable sources can come from 9/11 and all the bailing out we had to do.
How can you give Slick Willy credit for the jobs, that shouldn't have happened in the first place due to such things as .com's that never had a chance, give me a break, artifically inflated and you guys going around and saying what a job boom clinton did, my @ss he did.
Bush is not in my high spirits when it comes to the social programs, there needs to be cuts and he is throwing money like 20 billion to Africa, which he is only doing to grab some of your liberal buddy votes. There you go Larry, a fault of Bush, write it down.

[MikeH]

This thread should have been called "Let's stop beating around the Bush" or something.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
BTW, the Brits stand by their intelligence reports.
That's good enough for me.

Yes, but you believe the fox with feathers on his mouth when he says that he didn't eat no chickens.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kramerman


Oh, and the democrats are just freakin geniouses

I hardly think there is any correlation between intellegence and political party

All things being equal, people with higher education are more likely to vote Democratic.

Iregardless, participating in your government is a right, not a priveldge. Even the biggest dumbass in the country has the right to vote or even become President.

[chequita guevara]

I must laugh at Drake being called a liberal.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Sava
Defiant, the economy isn't suffering just because of Dot Com's... And BUSH IS TO BLAME, for keeping it stagnant with his economy killing deficits and jobless creating policies.

The only things he inherited from Slick Willy was the most modern military in the world, and the first budget surpluses in years. Most Bushies will cite that the war and terrorism are too blame for the deficits... but the tax cuts contribute more to the budget shortfall than anything else. It's that same kind of dumbass mentality like, "Reagan paved the way for the boom in the 90's... "

You really are a genious Sava. i dont know i failed to realize that

[Meldor]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


All things being equal, people with higher education are more likely to vote Democratic.

Again, you are mixing up your own feelings here. While I will agree that most in Academia are indeed more likely to vote democrat, beyond that your premise falls flat. The last info I recall seeing showed that the average IQ of Reps and Dems was pretty much equal.

The democratic advantage in academia is more than offset by the fact that a large percentage of their "core" voters are the minorites which are less likely to be educated.

The middle class, which is the "core" for the Republicans, sre more likely to pass your "civics exam" than are the Democratic "core". Therefore your Democrats are more likely to lose votters than the Republicans. Why do you think the Dems have pushed every way pssible to allow almost anyone to vote, such as "motor/voter" laws?

Just remeber, it was your highly educated democrat voters that couldn't use a Democrat designed butterfly ballot to vote for Gore in Florida, or so the Dems claimed. It was too confusing.

BTW, how long did you or have you been teaching?

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


All things being equal, people with higher education are more likely to vote Democratic.

Iregardless, participating in your government is a right, not a priveldge. Even the biggest dumbass in the country has the right to vote or even become President.

I somewhat disagree. I think it should be a right to be able to ACHEIVE the priveledge to vote, but it shouldnt be an automatic right by virtue of birth. My veiws are complex, but if you've read Star Ship Troopers (the book is entirely different than hte movie, focusing on philosophy and government), then you might have some idea of my thoughts on what should differentiate citizens (voting members of society) from residents.

And im not talking about jim crowe style civic exams to keep minorities from voting, its more along the line of required education one must take and required services one must give to become a citizen.

But, in reality its unrealistic my personal ideals will ever materialize, and our present system is good enough.