Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Christian reformer?

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 10
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 template Next
  • #31
    Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
    Our total range of "human" experience isn't even 1/1,000, or in many cases, 1/10,000 of the generational time frame for significant evolutionary changes, so yeah, it's hard to get a grasp of the process.
    If we can never observe "significant evolutionary changes" because the timespan is way too short, then macro-evolution can not be considered fact. After all, if we never actually observe "significant evolutionary changes", then how can we be 100% sure that they ever occur? It is possible that micro-evolution within a species occurs, but that macro-evolution from one species to another does not.
    'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
    G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

    Comment

    • #32
      diplomat, we can see macro-evolution in the fossil record. And we need only look at human ecolution for that...

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by Berzerker
        diplomat, we can see macro-evolution in the fossil record.
        The fossil record does not prove macro-evolution. The fossil record is only a "snapshot" that says approx. X years ago individual A lived here, approx. Y number of years individual B lived here. That in and of itself does not say anything about process. Furthermore, if the geological record shows an evolutionary process, then it shows an abrupt and sudden evolutionary process not a smooth process.
        Last, I'll remind you that the foosil record is not as clear cut as you seem to say. Fossils have been found in the "wrong" layer. For example, fossils of the Equus nevadenis have been found in the same layer as fossils of the eohippus.

        And we need only look at human evolution for that...
        Again not true. "Human evolution" is a case of micro-evolution within a species not macro-evolution between different species.
        'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
        G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

        Comment

        • #34
          Well if evolution can't disprove the existence of God- which is fair to say - then History has some pretty damning arguements against Jesus. Although a philosophical concept of 'God' is perfectly reasonable, I still don't understand this son of God crap.

          1/ Christianity borrowed heavily from Zoanthroism.
          2/ There is plenty of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. There is no evidence of a resurrection.
          3/ Except in the Gospels, which were largely written 3 generations after Jesus died.
          4/ The Sermon on the Mound includes references to the destruction of Jerusalem c70AD.
          5/ The books of Martyrs were written before the Gospels. Surprising the Gospels maintain the same features as the martyrs books. Even down to the same phrasology.


          And so on.
          Res ipsa loquitur

          Comment

          • #35
            Evolution is true but doesn't disprove the existence of god. Evolution is based on evidence but this doesn't disprove Christianity. The only thing is that Christianity and the existence of god (or jesus) does not have any proof.

            Hey Evil, that signature is retarded and wrong.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

            Comment

            • #36
              Without causing a massive threadjack.....

              Which facts are wrong?
              Res ipsa loquitur

              Comment

              • #37
                Originally posted by Evil Knevil
                Without causing a massive threadjack.....

                Which facts are wrong?
                Franco didn't kill more than Saddam. And why do you bring up the past? What is wrong with you?
                For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                Comment

                • #38
                  Err... yes he did (currently, the exact figures for Saddam are still coming in). I brought up the past to show the Hypocracy of the Azores conference.
                  Res ipsa loquitur

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Evil Knevil
                    Err... yes he did (currently, the exact figures for Saddam are still coming in). I brought up the past to show the Hypocracy of the Azores conference.
                    No he didn't.

                    Saddam killed anywhere from 1.5 million to 2 million. These figures include those killed in Iran.

                    You are the hypocrite bringing up the past. The past is old news and those who were in the past are no longer in power. So get a frigging clue!
                    For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      diplomat -
                      The fossil record does not prove macro-evolution. The fossil record is only a "snapshot" that says approx. X years ago individual A lived here, approx. Y number of years individual B lived here. That in and of itself does not say anything about process. Furthermore, if the geological record shows an evolutionary process, then it shows an abrupt and sudden evolutionary process not a smooth process.
                      But when we see more apelike bipedal creatures 3 million years ago followed by a ~progression of more modern looking hominids leading to us, we need to ask why these primitive creatures are old and not new and why we don't find anatomically modern humans in the record from 3 mya. Sure, we weren't there to see them roaming the savannah, but we do know they existed then and not now just as we know we exist now and not then... You get enough snapshots and a story unfolds...

                      Last, I'll remind you that the foosil record is not as clear cut as you seem to say. Fossils have been found in the "wrong" layer. For example, fossils of the Equus nevadenis have been found in the same layer as fossils of the eohippus.
                      Which is why more snapshots tell the story. Confusing layers and deposits doesn't explain the overall picture being drawn. Pointing to occasional mistakes to argue evolution is fraudulent by people who can't even figure out what Genesis says doesn't tell me much. When these people who are supposedly expert in their own field - theology and the Bible - are so oblivious to their own realm, I have no reason to trust their claims in other fields when they obviously have a motive to deceive or deny.

                      "Human evolution" is a case of micro-evolution within a species not macro-evolution between different species.
                      If you can look at Afarensis and it's predecessors and conclude we are the same species, then macro and micro becomes awfully blurred. Like MTG said, the terms are not concrete... If "humans" progressed that far in 4 million years, what were Afarensis' predecessors like 10 or 15 mya?

                      Comment

                      • #41
                        Saddam killed anywhere from 1.5 million to 2 million. These figures include those killed in Iran.
                        The US, or should I say, those running the US were quite happy when the victims were Iranians.

                        Comment

                        • #42
                          Oh, if you're including war..........
                          200,000 in death camps.
                          500,000 in the Civil War. Of which only 200,000 were combatants.
                          75,000 people purged between 1936-38
                          100,000 in Economic privations following SCW.
                          150,000 'disease excess deaths' although this may overlap with above.
                          50,000 in Morrocco.
                          40,000 in other colonial wars.

                          +3% of the population in mass exile.
                          Res ipsa loquitur

                          Comment

                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Berzerker


                            The US, or should I say, those running the US were quite happy when the victims were Iranians.
                            Well, whatever.

                            Lets move on with the topic on hand.

                            Evil, do whatever you like. Post all the lies you want. I am not going to talk with you anymore.
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                            Comment

                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Evil Knevil
                              Oh, if you're including war..........
                              200,000 in death camps.
                              500,000 in the Civil War. Of which only 200,000 were combatants.
                              75,000 people purged between 1936-38
                              100,000 in Economic privations following SCW.
                              150,000 'disease excess deaths' although this may overlap with above.
                              50,000 in Morrocco.
                              40,000 in other colonial wars.

                              +3% of the population in mass exile.
                              All of which are made up and inaccurate.
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                              Comment

                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Evil Knevil
                                1/ Christianity borrowed heavily from Zoanthroism.
                                It may have similarities with it, but it did not borrow from it. Christianity came out of judaism, as it was the result of the Apostles who were Jewish, who believes that this Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testamant. Christianity began as a Jewish "sect",and only later spread outside of Israel, to Gentiles.

                                2/ There is plenty of historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. There is no evidence of a resurrection.
                                3/ Except in the Gospels, which were largely written 3 generations after Jesus died.
                                The disciples were eye witnesses to the resurrection.

                                The Gospels were not written 3 generations after Jesus died. Matthew was written c. 50AD, Mark was written in the late 60's AD, Luke was written around 60 AD, and John was written around 70-80 AD. This is no way near 3 generations after Jesus died.

                                If you are interested I can show you the evidence for the dates.

                                4/ The Sermon on the Mount includes references to the destruction of Jerusalem c70AD.
                                I don't think it does. Show me the verses you are referring to.

                                5/ The books of Martyrs were written before the Gospels. Surprising the Gospels maintain the same features as the martyrs books. Even down to the same phrasology.
                                What are these "books of martyrs"? If they are not in the Bible, then they don't count!
                                'There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the darkness of the soul that has lost its way. The war we fight is not against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender. The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.'"
                                G'Kar - from Babylon 5 episode "Z'ha'dum"

                                Comment

                                Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10 template Next
                                Working...
                                X