four more years! four more years!

[Sava]

Good point Che... and just because the SCOTUS says so, doesn't make it right. I'm sure a lot of the same conservatives defending Bush's "legitimacy" are the same one's denouncing the court for it's ruling against the Texas sodomy laws. And the fact that Bush had Scalia and Rhenquist in his pocket helped a lot... it's a shame we have such corrupt people on the nation's highest court.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
@ this thread...

good points MtG... this is a Democracy, and it's a shame to see someone who claims to be in the Armed Forces protesting against the public's right to challenge the president's policy. Patrokolos has apparantly forgotten what he's fighting for (or claims to be fighting for).

It's a question of granularity. I agree that there's some areas that ignorant civilians, Lima Delta's that you all are , should shut the **** up and listen to the professionals.

When it gets to the level of fundamental policy issues, and/or the President specifically, that's fully game for the public to make whatever comments they want, informed, uninformed, or any shade in between. The President is a civilian, his role as CINC is only because it is a constitutionally defined role of the political office of the Presidency.

[Sava]

It's a question of granularity. I agree that there's some areas that ignorant civilians, Lima Delta's that you all are , should shut the **** up and listen to the professionals.

Perhaps in planning military strategies... but foreign policy is best left to civies... for whom military "solutions" are the last option, not the first.

And plus, the army has it's own version of white collar and blue collar. There are many "decorated" leaders that won't ever see an enemy combatant in their lives. Military experience is good, but not paramount.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Actually, they didn't. As soon as the Republicans started bleating about how the Dem's were trying to take away military votes, the Dem's stopped challenging the thousands of illegal absentee ballots that were coming in after the election. They were neither signed, nor witnessed, nor were they post-marked before the election. They never should have been counted. This is another place where the Republicans broke the law and the Democrats let them.

Meanwhile, 90,000 legal voters were declared ineligible by Bush, simply because they shared some data in common with a felon, including some for crimes that were aparently committed in the future.

Somebody must have done a good job mummifying this horse, for it to hold up under this much beating this long after it's dead.

Voter eligibility and registration is preliminarily handled at the county level, and you have county administrators and state officials of both parties playing games all the time, all over the country, to further the interest of their own political parties. The Democrat Cali SecState just got handslapped by an appellate court for foot-dragging and scoping games on counting whether there are enough valid signatures to recall Davis. A month or so of delay, and Davis can duck the issue until the March primary, when the liberal Dems in the state would be out in force.

Instead of *****ing past tense ad nauseum (and turning off a large portion of the electorate who is more interested in real issues than one-trick pony carping about an election which is now irrelevant), what happened to any concerted movement to enforce minimum standards for conduct of Federal elections? Why fix a problem, when it's so much easier to just ***** about it, right?

There was nothing fair and square about it. I got stamped with the approval of SCOTUS and Congress, so it's legal, but it sure as hell shouldn't have been.

The fact it's legal makes it fair and square. If you don't like the results the law allows, change the laws.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
Perhaps in planning military strategies... but foreign policy is best left to civies... for whom military "solutions" are the last option, not the first.

Foreign policy and military policy are indistinguishable, unless you want to stick with a "defend the borders" liberterarium fantasy world. Military options shouldn't be "first" (they weren't, otherwise these *******s wouldn't have been around long enough to irritate us), nor should they be "last" - it really should be a simple question of which approach will yield the best overall result.

And plus, the army has it's own version of white collar and blue collar. There are many "decorated" leaders that won't ever see an enemy combatant in their lives. Military experience is good, but not paramount.

We call those "REMFs"

[Sava]

Military options shouldn't be "first"

I agree, someone should tell Bush and the Neo-Cons, who planned the Iraqi War in the late 90's. It's too bad these morons didn't bother to plan the occupation. As evil as those guys are, I doubt the aftermath is going according to plan.

We call those "REMFs"

enlighten me please!

[Q Classic]

he might. i won't vote for him.

then again, i won't vote for any of the dems, nor would i vote for nader or the next potential green candidate, the idiot lady cynthia mckinney.

which leaves me no real person to vote for.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by Sava
I agree, someone should tell Bush and the Neo-Cons, who planned the Iraqi War in the late 90's. It's too bad these morons didn't bother to plan the occupation.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
Voter eligibility and registration is preliminarily handled at the county level, and you have county administrators and state officials of both parties playing games all the time, all over the country, to further the interest of their own political parties.

This is true, but here in Florida, the county administrators were told by the Sec of State they could not do this under the law and had to accept the scrubbed lists they were handed by the contractor. Meanwhile, the State told the contract to use as wide a net as possible on the names (despite the law saying it must be as narrow as possible) telling them that the counties will fix the lists. As the same people did the communicating to both the contactor and the counties, it's not a matter of one hand not being aware of the other hand.

The Democrat Cali SecState just got handslapped by an appellate court for foot-dragging and scoping games on counting whether there are enough valid signatures to recall Davis.

At least he got handslapped before he got away with it. Despite the unethical nature of the recall campaign, it is legal and legitimate.

Instead of *****ing past tense ad nauseum (and turning off a large portion of the electorate who is more interested in real issues than one-trick pony carping about an election which is now irrelevant), what happened to any concerted movement to enforce minimum standards for conduct of Federal elections?

I'm absolutely in agreement, and I want to start a campaign here in Florida to fix out elections. I am, however, in the wrong part of the state to easily build a critical mass towards getting the necessary amendments on the ballot. But *****ing is often a necessary precursor to doing. After all, if people don't know what went wrong, they aren't apt to change it. Right now people assume it was incompetence rather than malfeasence.

The fact it's legal makes it fair and square. If you don't like the results the law allows, change the laws.

What happened in Florida was illegal under the laws of Florida. That makes it, by definition, not fair and square. However, the gutless Dems refused to challange what they did know was going wrong (the stuff about the list scrubbing didn't come out until the following February, when it was too late to do anything but drag Jeb and Kate Harris to jail).

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Might be enough to win if the election was today, but it has dropped tremendously and hardly anyone even knows who the challengers are.

Actually a far more significant poll number is that in a recent Zogby poll, "For the first time, more likely voters (47%) say it's time for someone new in the White House, compared to 46% who said the President deserves to be re-elected. "

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=721

[Giancarlo]

Zogby is not credible... it is based on a biased sample that is both inadequate and uncredible.

[Sava]

Fez: The Project for the New American Century (PNAC), funded by three foundations closely tied to Persian Gulf oil and weapons and defense industries, planned the war well before Bush was elected. In 2000, they released an official document detailing the war in Iraq. D1ck Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Jeb Bush, and Paul Wolfowitz signed a Statement of Principles of the PNAC on June 3, 1997, along with many of the other current members of Bush’s “war cabinet.”

Why roll your eyes at the truth?

[gopher]

REMF: Rear Echilon Mother F**kers

A nice way of saying Brass, Stateside, or civillian.

[Giancarlo]

I didn't roll my eyes at that. I was rolling them at you and your hatred for politicans I happen to like. In every post I see it from you.

So please don't mix things up.

[MrFun]

A debate on the use of emoticons?