More anti-semitism in France

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
"if your hate is directed to those who perpetrated the looting, it is not racist"

And if it is directed against today's Turks (who can't possibly have anything have to do with it), it is racist.

Considering that you have no reason for hating those Turks, and that they are racially different from you (I suppose), yes, it is racist.

[HershOstropoler]

Well I have a "reason": What their ancestors did. How is it different for random jews in France being held "liable" for what Israel does?

[Felch]

DAVOUT, you'd better just give up. It's possible that you're just not explaining yourself well enough, but suffice it to say that to hate a French Jew because of what's happening in Israel is racist. It's the exact same thing as if Americans hated all Arabs because of what happened on Sept. 11.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler
Well I have a "reason": What their ancestors did. How is it different for random jews in France being held "liable" for what Israel does?

You have noticed that those events are directly connected to the conflict. These young people do not held the French Jews liable for what Israel does, they take side with the Palestinians against people they consider as on the side of Israel. They would do the same to black, yellow or white people if the Palestinians were fighing against black, yellow or white people, which means that they attack the French Jews not because of their race, but because of their (supposed) alliance with Israel.

The cause of their stupid attacks is political, not racist.

Incidentally, when one state is too closely identified to a race and a religion, it creates the conditions for such confusions to happen. And it is in nobody interest to give an extended definition of the racism; there are enough occasions to meet it without putting the infamous label on crimes which do not qualify for.

[HershOstropoler]

Originally posted by DAVOUT

These young people do not held the French Jews liable for what Israel does, they take side with the Palestinians against people they consider as on the side of Israel.

And they consider them on Israel's side because they are jews. If they only attacked zionists (jewish or not), they'd be purely politically motivated thugs. But so they are racist thugs.

[D' Artagnan]

What you guys need to understand is that 99 % of antisemite violent (or not) acts come from Arab populations. There are 4-5 millions of Arabs in France and only 600,000 Jews in France.
The average French isn't more antisemitic than ppl from other countries.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler


And they consider them on Israel's side because they are jews. If they only attacked zionists (jewish or not), they'd be purely politically motivated thugs. But so they are racist thugs.

This means that only racist attacks can be perpetrated against Jews. I dont believe that, and I am sorry for the French Jews if they do.

[HershOstropoler]

That's a classic non sequitur.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by Felch
DAVOUT, you'd better just give up. It's possible that you're just not explaining yourself well enough, but suffice it to say that to hate a French Jew because of what's happening in Israel is racist. It's the exact same thing as if Americans hated all Arabs because of what happened on Sept. 11.

I will give up when the meaning of racism will be : hating people for things on which they have no responsibility. Until that, racism means hating people just because they are racially different from me.

Problems improperly defined cannot be solved.

That said, I am sure that I am not explaining myself well enough.

[D' Artagnan]

DAVOUT, your justification of these acts by saying they're the Israelis cause makes me sick. The only thing that motivated those Arabs was hate and anti semitism.
Anyway, EVEN if the Israelo-Palestinian conflict was the cause of all this, it would still be anti semite acts.

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by D' Artagnan
DAVOUT, your justification of these acts by saying they're the Israelis cause makes me sick. The only thing that motivated those Arabs was hate and anti semitism.
Anyway, EVEN if the Israelo-Palestinian conflict was the cause of all this, it would still be anti semite acts.

I have so badly expressed myself that you can write that I have made a justification ! What I wanted to do was a non racist EXPLANATION, not justification. I am not advocating that these young Arabs are right, I said that they hate Israel and their allies amongst whom they count the French Jews for political reasons, and they need not to feed their hatred to anti-semitism or racism.

Who could believe that the Palestinians need more that political reasons for hating Israel ? And the Arabs here just mimic the Palestinians. The fact that the religion, the race and the nation makes the confusion possible continuously makes just the analysis more difficult, but nobody can think that replacing all Israeli Jews living in Israel by North Koreans would make the Palestinians happy.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by HershOstropoler


Well from a quick google search, I found:

May 27, 2000 Pennsylvania Arson destroys a synagogue in Philadelphia

Jan. 1, 2001 Nevada Arson damages the same Reno synagogue that racist Skinheads tried to firebomb in November 1999.

I'm sure there are more. Unfortunately, it would be strange if this thing did not happen.

Stopler: did you notice how the US media reported all of these incidents? Shouldn't you take back the, apparently untrue and unfounded, accussation that the US media ignores events like this?

[Dinner]

In another note that the Arab thug who beat up Jews and committed arson was released pending trial when he was so clearly a violent offender and a danger to the community is inexcusable. Someone should lose their job for that especially since this a-hole went out and committed more crimes. The to add insult to injury the French courts only gave him 3 years (and I bet he serves less the 50% of that before he is paroled).

This makes me so angry. Hate crimes are especially heinous and this piece of sh!t committed a violent hate crime which is the worst of the worst and still he won't spend any meaningful amount of time behind bars. The judges should be making examples of these criminals and throw the book at them. Instead they show the thugs a revolving door we're they commit gross crimes, spend a short stay in jail & get out, commit more crimes, briefly in jail & get out, repeat ad infintium...

[GePap]

This is making appalachians into the Himalayas.

MOst certainly this spike in anti-semitic incidents is worrysome: and certainly the French government and media are very well aware, as aware as anyone in the US is about our own porblems: As for the French Jewish community: I doubt that any time soon it will stop being the biggest in Europe, or one of the most integrated into its surrounding society, or that any time soon all of the Jews wil run for Irsael, anymore than Jews in NY will run for Israel.

As for the Arabs: I think their anti-semitism is of a new brand: it is somewhat like the anti-semitism you have in NY among, many African-Americans, singling out one successful minority by another one that feels (sadly, ussually rightly) that society at large is failing them. It is easier to pick on another minority than on the whole central system. The Israel-Palestine issue only "adds" justification, so that the men doing this can think they are doing it "for their fellow arabs", even thought that is not the reality.

[D' Artagnan]

Oerdin, the last time a cop incidentally shot and killed an Arab there were riots in the "ghettos" for a week at least.
You have to act smooth with them if you don't want them to become crazy : look at the ME...

Gepap I agree with u with the fact that the Israelo-Palestinian conflict is a fake justification for these French Arabs.
They actually don't give a sh!t about Palestinians but it's a way to show their hatred against the Jews.

Also, you have to had jealousy to that : as u said, Jews are very assimilated in France and the most usually area part of the highest class of the society. Unlike Arabs, who don't even want to be assimilated. I have respect for the older generation who came in France in the sixties and managed to find jobs.
But, now young Arabs are hopeless. All they care about is regrouping into gangs and make trouble everywhere. They have respect for no one. That's the biggest reason why the far right went so far in the last presidential elections.

But the new government has done well so far with criminal acts reduced of 10 % compared to 2002 and antisemitic acts diminishing (word ?) a lot as well.

The government is still scare of them though , ie Chirac pro-arab policies.