Conscription

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But there is no reason that Congress should make the decision to send other people kids to die in war.

That's what they are there for! They have war making powers.

And when they send the People to fight a war in their interest that is authoritarian govt. The simple fact that they have the power to do so is authoritarian. They should not have the power to send the People off to fight a war in their own interest.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And btw, they are the people. All your protestations won't change that.

If the're the people then what is their purpose? Their purpose is to make decisions that the people might not make. That means they are NOT the people.

[Kidlicious]

Anyway Imran, It's the president that sends our children off to war usually, not Congress.

[Imran Siddiqui]

They should not have the power to send the People off to fight a war in their own interest.

Which is your opinion. Nice and all, but doesn't matter too much when its been upheld and done.

If the're the people then what is their purpose? Their purpose is to make decisions that the people might not make. That means they are NOT the people.

Um... no... they make decision FOR the people, being representative of people. Seeing as how each individual cannot vote on every bill, they select people to advance their views and represent them. Hence, they are the people, being their representatives.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Okay...here it is:

Because we live in a representative democracy, not an absolute one, and IN this representative democracy, it falls to our elected officials to decide matters of state (including whether and how to wage wage a war). Our constitution allows for that. In short, that's the way things are, and the way things should remain, unless YOU can give us some compelling reason to change it, and convince a sufficient number of people to affect large numbers of elections.

How's that for starters?

-=Vel=-

I've given you the reason. Rich white people who 'represent' us usually force us to fight wars that are not in our interest. Good enough?

[Velociryx]

Ummm....Kid, that's why it's called a "representative" democracy?

If we attempted to decide such matters via direct democracy (with each individual member getting to vote and debate, and filabuster directly on the matter, we, as a nation would be utterly paralyzed, which is precisely why it's NOT done that way).

-=Vel=-

[Imran Siddiqui]

Anyway Imran, It's the president that sends our children off to war usually, not Congress.

Congress usually has to approve, as they have in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Ummm....Kid, that's why it's called a "representative" democracy?

If we attempted to decide such matters via direct democracy (with each individual member getting to vote and debate, and filabuster directly on the matter, we, as a nation would be utterly paralyzed, which is precisely why it's NOT done that way).

-=Vel=-

Why would we be paralyzed? Let Congress debate and then we vote. If the nation is under attack that is another matter, but as far as the US in concerned that is usually not the case. Even if the US in under attack the people should be able to decide the terms of peace.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Anyway Imran, It's the president that sends our children off to war usually, not Congress.

Congress usually has to approve, as they have in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The President is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces. Congress usually approves because they don't want to look powerless not approving.

[Velociryx]

Well Kid....tell you what: Your vision of how the government *should be* is far, far different than the way it currently IS. If you like, if it's that important to you, feel free to try and change the system to be more direct and less representative.

Currently, however, we DO have a representative democracy. That's the way the country works.

You are, of course, free to gripe about that all you want, but it won't change the reality. Only action changes reality, but then, that's ground we've covered before....

-=Vel=-

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why would we be paralyzed?

Yes, for every single minute decision, let everyone vote... how long will we let them vote? How long will we instruct the people? Are we going to force people to watch CSPAN so they know what is going on? Are we going to force people to read every bit of a law so they understand what they are voting on?

Totally impractical!

If the nation is under attack that is another matter

What the Hell do you think we are talking about .

[DinoDoc]

I would actually liked to have seen what would have happened if Congress had voted against the deployment to the Balkans considering it was carried out without approval by Congress. Some of them even filed suit over that.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The President is the Commander in Chief of the armed forces. Congress usually approves because they don't want to look powerless not approving.

Hehe... perhaps you should read the Constitution again. Congress votes on actual wars. The President can unilaterially carry out peacekeeping missions, but in a war, Congress has to make its voice known.

[DinoDoc]

Points to his post above Imran's.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Seeing how that wasn't actually a war (do you really consider it one), I don't see how that contradicts what I said.

Now, if we sent in ground troops, then Congress would have to be consulted.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Why would we be paralyzed?

Yes, for every single minute decision, let everyone vote... how long will we let them vote? How long will we instruct the people? Are we going to force people to watch CSPAN so they know what is going on? Are we going to force people to read every bit of a law so they understand what they are voting on?

Totally impractical!

I'm not talking about direct democracy except in this case. I do believe in equality though, and I think if the system were more equal Congress would make better decisions in more than one way.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

If the nation is under attack that is another matter

What the Hell do you think we are talking about .

The people should be able to make the decision to prolong war or to start a draft. Of course the standing military should defend the nation against an attack.