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Good Gawd! -- FY '03 Deficit of $450 Billion

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  • #181
    "That is the case with any bankrupt institution."

    Yes, but this ones are government created, partly government-backed, and percieved as almost fully government-backed.

    So they're somewhat different animals.
    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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    • #182
      Originally posted by Ted Striker


      libertarian
      Pass the dutchie...

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      • #183
        das Osterreich Banksystem ist bunt

        We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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        • #184
          Nope, it's two-coloured.
          “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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          • #185
            Originally posted by HershOstropoler
            "That is the case with any bankrupt institution."

            Yes, but this ones are government created, partly government-backed, and percieved as almost fully government-backed.

            So they're somewhat different animals.
            Is this what you believe or others? I say, let it fall. The government never had a guarantee. So there. That's a risk bondholders take. They speculate. LEt em eat their loss.

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            • #186
              lots of people "
              percoeved" that the worls wouldn't let Russia default. But we did. So much for nuclear powers never defaulting. You loan money, you take a risk.

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              • #187
                "They speculate. LEt em eat their loss."

                Yup. But the government guarantee, limited as it is, has given an edge to this speculation. Doesn't mean they shouldn't eat their losses, but the effect is still one that the government, just by perceptions it creates, subsidises the housing sector. The sooner it ends, the better.
                “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                • #188
                  Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                  "They speculate. LEt em eat their loss."

                  Yup. But the government guarantee, limited as it is, has given an edge to this speculation. Doesn't mean they shouldn't eat their losses, but the effect is still one that the government, just by perceptions it creates, subsidises the housing sector. The sooner it ends, the better.
                  Agreed. A simple statement would be enough for me. Of course when they eat their loss, it will make them know we are serious.

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                  • #189
                    There is a lot of moral hazard out there. But the thing is, you can never count on a bailout. Even if the previous administration were in power. Investors never KNOW that they will get the bailout. THey just know that there is a chance of it. SO they don't demand as high a premium. But...well...they will learn.

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                    • #190
                      "But...well...they will learn."

                      Don't think so. This would be a good deal bigger than S&L, and shake the financial system that is fragile anyway. I think the Fed and Washington will do everything to prolongue this game.
                      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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                      • #191
                        Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                        "But...well...they will learn."

                        Don't think so. This would be a good deal bigger than S&L, and shake the financial system that is fragile anyway. I think the Fed and Washington will do everything to prolongue this game.
                        But I thought you agreed that the failure must be allowed to happen. That that is the easiest way. I don't think we should liquidate it immediately. We should let it fail naturally. Liquidating it if it has not broken covenants is overly generous to bondholders. Let their invesments decline more first. THat is the deal with bonds, you don't get to provoke bankruptcy at any time. Only under set conditions.

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                        • #192
                          The money is gone in any case. Why will it "shake the foundations" if we let the investors take the hit instead of taxpayers? That is hyperbole. The simplest thing is a bankruptcy. Let the carnage proceed. I'm strong. Life will go on just fine...

                          The carnage-scared are just trying to get a bailout. Let the think die if that is natural.

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                          • #193
                            Fortunately GP is not the Fed Chief. What a moron.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #194
                              Originally posted by Kidicious
                              Fortunately GP is not the Fed Chief. What a moron.
                              Nice rebuttal... you have anything to say that isn't a insult?
                              For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                              • #195
                                Originally posted by Fez


                                Nice rebuttal... you have anything to say that isn't a insult?
                                Are you his mommy?
                                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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