self defense myths

[Elok]

Idunno...carrying a chainsaw in a scabbard sounds a little wonky. Sort of a "backwoods samurai" motif. What would I wear with it, a red plaid kimono?
Or I could go for a more Europen style, smack people with a leather work glove and accuse them of insulting my honor. Either way it's a tad anachronistic.

[David Floyd]

Pekka makes an excellent point. Karate, TKD, Kung Fu (all forms) pretty much suck from a realistic self defense standpoint, as do the more exotic arts such as Tang Soo Do, trapfighting, and things of that nature.

Now yes, I'm sure that some 200 lb guy with 25 years experience in Shotokan would be dangerous. But that's not the point. If it takes you 20 years to become effective in self defense, then it's time to find another fighting system, preferably one that doesn't emphasize the "art" part in "martial arts". That means cut out the forms, cut out the "self defense techniques", cut out the step by step sparring, and for God's sake cut out the philosophy.

Look at it like this - if you get into a fight w/ a 20 year old who has a black belt in, say, TKD, and you're a fairly strong/big guy, you don't have much to worry about - you just ground and pound his ass. Most people aren't worried about Karate and other traditional systems, and find them vaguely amusing.

But ask these people about Brazilian Jiujitsu, Valetudo, Muay Thai, and even stuff like Krav Maga, and a)they won't know what the **** you're talking about, and b)when they find out, they won't get a kick out of the non-existent Butterfly Style Form IIB.

The final thing is that without cross-training, your ass is dead. You have to be a "complete fighter" - that means good kicks, good punching ability, good shots, and good grappling. A collegiate wrestler? Not a problem, will get his ass kicked against a competent striker. A collegiate wrestler w/ cross training in Muay Thai or Boxing? It's gonna take a lot more to beat this guy. A pro boxer? Let's see how good those punches are when he's flat on his back. A pro boxer who knows Brazilian Jiujitsu?

[Az]

A pro boxer who knows Brazilian Jiujitsu?

One of the best arguments for the right to carry guns, ever.

[David Floyd]

Good point

A few months back, I had a sparring match with an amateur boxer. Wasn't too worried about it, as I have beat amateur boxers in the past, and in MMA pure boxing isn't that tough to beat. I got my ass handed to me, and ONLY AFTER THE FIGHT did I find out this guy was a middleweight NHB champion in Texas

[Az]

I always looked at it as the real-life fightclub.

[David Floyd]

I've got a challenge match tomorrow with a black belt in a Korean martial art called Kuk Sool Won. The guy is about 4 inches taller and outweighs me by probably 50 pounds, so this could get interesting...

[Az]

Call me when you're back from the hospital.

[David Floyd]

Nah, worst case scenario I get a little busted up, but I'm not even expecting that. I wanna keep the fight standing, to beat him at his own game, and I have little respect for traditional martial arts, so I'm not too worried, but I can always just take the guy down and submit or G&P.

[Dis]

I have no idea how to fight. can someone teach me?

[Pekka]

David Floyd, good to see you!

Yeah, we agree and pretty much have agreed all the way in this are. People who usually disagree in this matter have not really been introduced to these more complete styles, or know how the cross training really is supposed to work. But I understand it, I never understood it before I accidentally saw some old Pancrase tape and Shamrock doing stuff.. love at the first sight .

People are offended many times by these claims though.. but they shouldn't be. It's still pretty new thing (at least in the US it is) and not few thousand years old.
I'd take most generally known styles before I took a stupid drunk brawler with a gut, honestly. The drunk is more dangerous to me.. they are like bulls! So much can be compensated with pure attitude. Then if they have some talent to go with that attitude and maybe even experience? I bet my money on those guys against karate kids. But anything can happen..

David, what do you think of the instructors responsibility? They DO market these things as the best self defense, and that you can defend yourself against armed attackers etc? Because that's not really true. Well you can if you're lucky, but I wouldn't really count on it.

[Pekka]

Oh, and good luck with your fight! If it gets bad standing up, just go for GnP ..


OH! and almost the biggest growing market is women. They all want to get women in their gyms (to get money). Then they teach something that DOES NOT WORK in real life. Some moves require awful lot of power and speed, which most don't have because they don't even try to do it for real, so they don't even know they really can't do it. And they'll get raped and mutilated trying to think what mr sensei instructed.. no help, sorry.
Most guys don't start mugging or fighting with their testicles having a sign 'kick me here'.
Fortunately there are good stuff for women too that is realistic. But how do they know where to go? They can't.. since everyone is saying they are the hot stuff.
If I was an instructor, I wouldn't have the guts to say 'when someone attacks you do this and this' to a small woman, when I know it won't work.
And I don't mean more complete styles, I mean pure self defense with all means necessary courses for women.. they are good if you really have to defend.

[David Floyd]

David, what do you think of the instructors responsibility? They DO market these things as the best self defense, and that you can defend yourself against armed attackers etc? Because that's not really true. Well you can if you're lucky, but I wouldn't really count on it.

Well, I think that some of this stuff DOES work from a BASIC self defense aspect, in CERTAIN situations. The problem, though, is that for, say, Shotokan or Kenpo to work, you're gonna have to have a LOT of experience.

As to responsibility, I don't think the instructors have any malicious intent, and they also can and will claim that they are teaching a system of philosophy that happens to include fighting aspects.

It's a load of horse****, but hold them responsible for "their" style not working? I personally don't think so.

OH! and almost the biggest growing market is women.

You're absolutely right.

One of my female friends recently started taking Wing Chun Kung Fu. She's about 100 pounds, and maybe 5'1". Last night, I basically told her that if that's what she wanted to do because she enjoyed it, great, but that she shouldn't approach it from a self defense aspect. I quickly added that what I do wouldn't work well for her either - she's too small and doesn't have enough physical strength. This isn't to say that women can't learn to fight or be good fighters - it's just much more difficult for them, for whatever reason (teaching a woman how to throw a proper punch is an exercise in utter frustration).

I think that for real self defense most women need to a)avoid traveling alone in dangerous areas, b)carry and handgun, or mace, or something like that, and c)learn some sort of last ditch, brutal type of hand to hand comabt. I think that incorporating ELEMENTS of Krav Maga would be the best for this situation, if you want to put a name to it, but about the best thing to teach women is how to strike quickly with surprise to sensitive areas (groin, neck, etc.), and GET AWAY.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Pekka
Krav Maga wasn't one of the stuff I was bashing. It's good, it's realistic. Especially the military version.

hi ,

thats why there is only one solution , you must learn it , .....

together with some "close combat" , ......

there are great cources in Israel btw , ....

or you could join the ffl and learn it for free , ......

have a nice day

[Faboba]

Originally posted by Azazel
"Kapteeni Isomuna"

Captured teen is mine?

All your teens are belong to us.

[Zero]

self defense is meant to help u even the odds. Now if u make a scneario of 100lb female going up agst the 200lb guy with a knife, no matter how well trained u are in self defense, its probably gonna be near impossible to make it completely even.

so is martial arts effective? well I'll reiterate the answer i give over and over again. That would depend on how dedicated u are and how talented or athletic u are. Most of the ppl I see that goto dojos and practice martial arts are completley inept geeks that think learning will make a difference... well it will, but not enough. This applies to every single school +sport. Its not the style, its essentially the individual that improves him/herself.



instructors talk like if u learn martial arts u can fly cause well... thats how they make money!