WTO rules against U.S. steel tariff

[LoneWolf]

Well, Imran, my own inclination is also to free trade. But you have got to look at the facts. We are being screwed. We open our markets, and others don't, or do but subsidize their own industries so heavily that ours have no chance.

Its a good theory, but we are the only believers, and it is killing us.

[Imran Siddiqui]

So what if we are being screwed?! Didn't you read my post? When England took off all tariffs, it was the only country that did anything like that. All their rivals had huge tariffs... and they benefited immensely.

Time to practice what we preach.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by LoneWolf


We have no allies.

No sense in getting distracted by such emotional foolishness. Sometimes our interests coincide with other countries', other times not.

If we are to have true competition, let's go. I just wish we were allowed to compete in other markets like we allow others to "compete" (dump) here.

THe Euros, for example, subsidize Airbus obscenely, in order to keep unemployment a little less than catastrophic, and steal contracts from Boeing because they pay only a small portion of their true labor costs. But the Euros expect us to open our markets to such "free" competition, and we do, even for military contracts. We are truly stupid.
And then they say we are "unilateral" and "protectionist. HAH! If we really were, every other economy in the world would completely collapse.

those are good points. but wouldnt the WTO have thought of this before making their ruling? Is there something else that affected their judgement? Are they belligerent toward the US?

[Kuciwalker]

Imram's right. In this case, "What doesn't kill you just makes you stronger" is completely true.

[LoneWolf]

Well. Imran, we do practice what we preach (with a couple of isolated exceptions like the recent steel tariffs), and it is not helping us. We are bleeding out $41 Billion each month.
So tell me when the benefit starts?

[Kuciwalker]

If our industries have to compete against ADVANTAGED opponents and survive, they will be suprememly efficient and profitable.

[LoneWolf]

Oh, and to Skywalker, its killing us.

[Imran Siddiqui]

we do practice what we preach (with a couple of isolated exceptions like the recent steel tariffs)

The isolated exceptions show that we do not.

it is not helping us. We are bleeding out $41 Billion each month.
So tell me when the benefit starts?

It already has. The US has an incredibly high living standard where its people can afford better made foreign goods. US industries are also getting more and more efficient to compete.

I don't care about the trade deficit. It's making things better for the people who buy things.

Tariffs led to the debacle of American automobile manufacturers in the 1970s.

[LoneWolf]

No, the isolated exceptions are isolated exceptions. Overall, our markets are THE most open in the world. That is our problem.

The auto industry is an excellent example. Most cars sold here are now foreign. Is that good? The "debacle" you speak of was caused by an artificial "oil crisis" and the resultant rush to import cars which were perceived to be more efficient. It was not accompanied by an opening of non-US markets, and our auto industry is now dying. Chrysler is gone, Ford is going and GM is on life support. And you think this is an example of the success of free trade for US?

[LoneWolf]

Originally posted by Kramerman


those are good points. but wouldnt the WTO have thought of this before making their ruling? Is there something else that affected their judgement? Are they belligerent toward the US?

Not more belligerent than other such organizations. All such entities form the purpose to "reign us in", because that is why other nations support them. The French, for example, don't really give a damn about "international institutions". They just know that it is the only weapon they have. Ultimately, these nations realize (correctly) that the best way for them to oppose us is to ensnare us in "international institutions"."

[Imran Siddiqui]

Overall, our markets are THE most open in the world. That is our problem.

It's our strength.

The auto industry is an excellent example. Most cars sold here are now foreign. Is that good? The "debacle" you speak of was caused by an artificial "oil crisis" and the resultant rush to import cars which were perceived to be more efficient. It was not accompanied by an opening of non-US markets, and our auto industry is now dying. Chrysler is gone, Ford is going and GM is on life support. And you think this is an example of the success of free trade for US?

Yes it is good that more foreign cars will be sold. American car makers can get their asses in gear. To say Chrysler is dying is ludicrious! It is actually thriving! The latest reports say that Chrysler is propping up the sagging Mercedes line of Daimler-Chrysler. Ford is doing fine, and GM is doing well.

The reason the 70s were such a disaster was because of the oil shocks. Gas was so much that people didn't CARE they were paying for more expensive Toyota's and Honda's so long as they didn't have to pay as much for gas (better MPGs). American cars died as Americans said screw this, we'll pay more for Japanese. Because of decades of tariffs, American cars were so utter crap that people didn't want them anymore.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yes it is good that more foreign cars will be sold. American car makers can get their asses in gear. To say Chrysler is dying is ludicrious! It is actually thriving! The latest reports say that Chrysler is propping up the sagging Mercedes line of Daimler-Chrysler. Ford is doing fine, and GM is doing well.

That's not what the experts are saying. The US industry did well, because of new products (Minivans adn SUV), but if they can't keep coming up with new products they are doomed.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So what if we are being screwed?! Didn't you read my post? When England took off all tariffs, it was the only country that did anything like that. All their rivals had huge tariffs... and they benefited immensely.

Time to practice what we preach.

England wasn't free trade. It had colonies where it used mercantalist policies.

[Imran Siddiqui]

How many colonies did it have in 1632? What, Scotland?

The US industry did well, because of new products

You mean they got their asses in gear? And have to continue to keep their asses in gear? *gasp* no!

[Kuciwalker]

[nit-picking]Well, actually some British colonies in America existed by then[/nit-picking]