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World Recession Spreads Through Asia, ECB Still Holds Rates Steady

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  • #76
    BTW those Anglo-Saxon Turbocapitalists are just Keynesians in disguise.

    This can't go without a response.

    Keynes would go far, far beyond the modest actions taken by the Anglo-Saxon Turbocapitalists in trying to control the economy. Keynes is about far more than futzing with the interest and tax rates.
    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Kidicious

      Boy you and HO. There really are a lot of you aren't there. I don't think the danger of bubbles is nearly as bad as the danger of recession.
      Uncle Alan gives you both in abundance. But I'm not surprised by a whacko Leftie being a fan of Greenspan. It's a strange, strange world.

      "Only lower interest rates can drive growth or slow it down."

      So let's say lower interest rates don't increase aggregate credit and money supply, where exactly is extra demand coming from? Hardly velocity.

      Azazel:

      "IIRC, Japan has a budget deficit. in the same time, Japan suffers from Deflation. why can't the government just print some money, and take care of both problems?"

      That's essentially what they (and the Fed) are doing, just a bit more elgantly.

      Dan:

      They are operating from the same assumptions about the power of the nannystate. Also, if you look at the manipulation of the mortgage market or the fed-engineered bailouts, the anglosaxons have a lot of other tricks up their sleeves.
      “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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      • #78
        Yes, the mortgage market is manipulated to give us a better result. I don't deny that. However, all central banks manipulate the financial sector to some degree. Whether in aggregate the Anglo-Saxon sphere is worse than others, I don't know.
        I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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        • #79

          "IIRC, Japan has a budget deficit. in the same time, Japan suffers from Deflation. why can't the government just print some money, and take care of both problems?"

          That's essentially what they (and the Fed) are doing, just a bit more elgantly.

          Since the deflation continues, and the deficit is still there, why not stem on a pedal a bit more?
          urgh.NSFW

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DanS
            Yes, the mortgage market is manipulated to give us a better result. I don't deny that.
            Better results through government manipulation. You're one bloody commie - looking for a job at GOSPLAN?
            “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Azazel
              Since the deflation continues, and the deficit is still there, why not stem on a pedal a bit more?
              Well they tried new spending packages again and again - it didn't work. I think doubling the deficit to what, 20 % of GDP, would also just create a blip. But I think "deflation" is not the problem, which will get me ridiculed by angry Enron shareholders.
              “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

              Comment

              • #82
                Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                So let's say lower interest rates don't increase aggregate credit and money supply, where exactly is extra demand coming from? Hardly velocity.
                I'm confused. If lower rates don't result in increased aggregate credit then demand must be decreasing. I'm not sure what you are getting at. I'm not saying that increased money supply doesn't increase output, but that it only does so when interest rates are lowered, ceterus parabus.
                I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                • #83
                  Did their increase in spending follow an increase in the, ahem, production of cash, as I said? because otherwise, esp. if most of the money was raised internally, this would mean little.
                  urgh.NSFW

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    Kid: I have no idea what you are trying to say. But maybe this will end the issue anyway: "that it only does so when interest rates are lowered" - and the ECB has lowered interest rates, and money supply is reacting more strongly than in the US. The reason is that we pretty much maintained economic balance, while the US economy is ****ed from one end to the other.
                    “Now we declare… that the law-making power or the first and real effective source of law is the people or the body of citizens or the prevailing part of the people according to its election or its will expressed in general convention by vote, commanding or deciding that something be done or omitted in regard to human civil acts under penalty or temporal punishment….” (Marsilius of Padua, „Defensor Pacis“, AD 1324)

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Originally posted by HershOstropoler
                      and the ECB has lowered interest rates, and money supply is reacting more strongly than in the US.
                      Show me.
                      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                      Comment

                      • #86
                        Do you mean that the money supply has increased more in the EU than in the US or that output has increased more in the EU?
                        I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                        - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                        • #87
                          Does the ECB even keep track of the economic growth of the EU? I can't find the stats at their website.
                          I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                          - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Kidicious
                            Yes, but lower interest rates are needed to increase velocity. The point is that increased money supply may lower rates, but unless rates are lowered people will not spend more.
                            And as I've told you over and over again, corporate bond rates and govt bond rates are lower in the Eurozone than in the US. Obviously there are other factors.

                            From May's report of monetary developments in the eurozone: "On the asset side of the consolidated balance sheet of the MFI sector, the (non-seasonally adjusted)
                            annual growth rate of total credit granted to euro area residents increased to 4.9% in May, from 4.7% in
                            April."

                            Another point is that you can have a larger money supply with a smaller output and not have inflation. When people start spending you can decrease the money supply.
                            Rephrase please.

                            They just need to be lower to stimulate growth.
                            Credit availability isn't the sole determinant of growth.
                            DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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                            • #89
                              According to the European Commision the European Union's economy grew by 0.1% in the first quarter. Wow HO, that monetary policy of yours is doing wonders.
                              I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                              - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Kidicious


                                Show me.
                                *KUCH*

                                DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.

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