The big bang and before.

[The Andy-Man]

after all a universe which doesn't create beings to observe it doesn't exist

So (to be so much more difficult - but hey, i am undertaking a big subject here ) what constitutes the human conscience, and to what extent can a rock be aware of the universe (thus it exists) like a human being - saying there are no human beings, or other 'living' things.

also, does this mean, things only come into being when somebody notices it?

[Soul Survivor]

problem with these theories.... 100 years ago they would have been considered crazy, 100 years from now they will be considered crazy

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
but, to be difficult, was there anything that existed before time? and what, specificly, is time then?

You can't have anything before time, since "before" denotes a temporal relationship, which can't exist sans time!

Time is a function of space. Basically, it is movement through space.

[Edan]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man

also, does this mean, things only come into being when somebody notices it?

I guess that answers the quesiton of what happens when a tree falls in a forest and no one's around to hear it.

[Soul Survivor]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man


So (to be so much more difficult - but hey, i am undertaking a big subject here ) what constitutes the human conscience, and to what extent can a rock be aware of the universe (thus it exists) like a human being - saying there are no human beings, or other 'living' things.

also, does this mean, things only come into being when somebody notices it?

well thats all quantum entanglement.... like the tree falling in the woods, does it make a sound? according to quantum theory, until someone observes it is simultaneously in a state of existence/non-existence

like i said before, crazy talk

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Soul Survivor


well thats all quantum entanglement.... like the tree falling in the woods, does it make a sound? according to quantum theory, until someone observes it is simultaneously in a state of existence/non-existence

like i said before, crazy talk

yes, but the laws of physics surley mean it does make a sound, therefore something must notice it, so maybe a rock notices it, or the tree itself.

why does a human being have to notice it?


It looks like this will be a great topic to read tommorow

and if anyone klnow any good books to start on the leanr the principles of quantum mechanics, astro-physics and all that is related, please do so

[Soul Survivor]

anything by hawking is good, his books are pretty well written, and not too difficult to follow

a rock or tree aren't aware of their own existence, they can't "notice" anything..... observer is the key word

[Sava]

I don't believe that the Big Bang was the start of all time or that all matter in the universe came from it.

[mrmitchell]

The most optomistic Big Bang theory is that our universe came from a densely packed sphere of matter that exploded, and that this sphere came from the densely packed remains of the universe before us. The difficulty in this, however, is that there is no beginning. Thus, when our universe comes to an end, it is hoped that it collapses into its own densely packed sphere of matter and explodes into another one.

However, also when a black hole becomes so heavy that it bends the space-time...wait...you didn't ask about that...put simply, it eventually comes to an end. Sorry.

[Sava]

I tend to think that the "Big Bang" is a localized event. Meaning there is more matter, farther away, that doesn't collapse. I think the "Big Bang" event occurs when a super black hole gets so dense, it reaches a critical mass and BOOM!

[Japher]

I believe that the universe is constant flux with another "plane", maybe multiple "planes", that over time ebb and wane between each other.

The differences between these planes is seen in anti-matter which makes up the polar of our plane. This anti-matter is transfered through stars and black holes. That where ever we have a star the other plane has a blackhole, and where we have blackholes that plane has stars. Currently the other plane contains less energy/matter than our plane.

The "big bang" is a point in time where the scale tipped in favor of our plane converting anti-matter into matter,l robbing the other plane of its matter.

Eventually the tide will wane, or is currently, to which we will end in a big suck, where the matter switches yet again.

Sounds stupid, but it was the best I could do

[mrmitchell]

Since we're getting complicated here, I'll go ahead and explain universe birth. A black hole becomes so dense that it bends spacetime to itself, and eventually the spacetime snaps...the black hole is now seperated from the old universe and the black hole explodes and creates a new universe in a new Big Bang.

However, just remember that all of this is theoretical, which means you've got a better chance of deciding a theory right by tossing a coin than actual research probably.

[Boris Godunov]

I think the mental barrier for most is that everyone is locked, understandably, into a mentality that there must be a cause and effect for everything, and that something had to come from somewhere. Since the laws of our universe are structured this way, it's hard to break from that linear thinking. But keep in mind that the laws of the universe were created at the Big Bang, so without it, they aren't necessarily applicable. That's why the notion of "before" the Big Bang is meaningless, because without the universal laws governing time and space, there is no such thing as "before" or "after."

Likewise, we seemed locked into this idea that the natural state of things was "nothingness," and "something" sprang from that. This, however, is not really sound thinking. We have no idea that "nothingness" is even a viable concept, since we've never encountered or observed true "nothingness." Even the vacuum of space has "something" in it, such as cosmic rays and dust, particles, etc. It seems to me that it is most logical to assume that, since "something" is here, the natural state of things is "somethingness."

[Sava]

But keep in mind that the laws of the universe were created at the Big Bang, so without it, they aren't necessarily applicable. That's why the notion of "before" the Big Bang is meaningless, because without the universal laws governing time and space, there is no such thing as "before" or "after."

I think the Universe and all its laws have existed infinitely, and will continue to forever.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I think the mental barrier for most is that everyone is locked, understandably, into a mentality that there must be a cause and effect for everything, and that something had to come from somewhere. Since the laws of our universe are structured this way, it's hard to break from that linear thinking. But keep in mind that the laws of the universe were created at the Big Bang, so without it, they aren't necessarily applicable. That's why the notion of "before" the Big Bang is meaningless, because without the universal laws governing time and space, there is no such thing as "before" or "after."

Well this is totally religious thinking
And God said let there be light and there was light ....



and where was that thrad of mine that if time was infinite God was a 100% certainty...