Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Concern as Britons face US tribunal

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Concern as Britons face US tribunal

    The Foreign Office last night expressed serious concern about Washington's decision to put two Britons held as suspected terrorists in Guantanamo Bay before a secretive military tribunal which has the power to order executions.

    President Bush's decision to "designate" six inmates of the maximum security Camp Delta - including the Britons, an Australian, and three others - to face the military hearings sparked worldwide condemnation, and lawyers accused the US of devising a process that was loaded towards ensuring guilty verdicts.

    Feroz Abbasi, 23, from Croydon, south London, and Moazzam Begg, 35, from Aparkbrook, Birmingham, have been held for 18 months without charge or access to a lawyer. Asked about the possibility of the death penalty, the father of Moazzam, Azmat Begg, said: "It's a disaster for the family."

    Britain has "strong reservations" about the US plans for the military commission, where US military officers - the judge and jury - will sit in judgment on charges brought by their government. The defence and prosecution lawyers will also be US military officers.

    The Foreign Office minister, Lady Symons, said: "We would want to ensure that there is a separation between government on one hand and the judiciary on the other. It is now up to us to have a very vigorous discussion with the US about securing a fair trial for the individuals involved."

    A British source said that although no charges had been yet indicated, they were expected to be insufficiently serious to qualify for the death penalty. "It appears very unlikely that any of the two British detainees would face the death penalty," a British official said.

    The proceedings will be held mainly in secret, although the Pentagon plans to hold some sections in public to assuage human rights concerns.

    Britain is in an embarrassing diplomatic position. It does not seek a public row with the US, its closest ally, but also knows the men's families will campaign vigorously against the decision to subject the Britons to military tribunals.

    The Guardian has learned of concerns about the mental health of both British men. In his last meeting with British officials in April, Mr Abbasi said nothing for an hour, and Mr Begg in a recent letter to his wife wrote that he would take a decision that would affect the entire family. "He said anything just in the hope of getting out of there," said his father.

    Stephen Jakobi, director of the British pressure group Fair Trials Abroad, said the tribunals were being "fixed" to secure convictions. Louise Christian, solicitor for Feroz Abbasi, said his mother, Zumrati Juma, was "very, very distressed and very despondent and believes the British government has let her down".

    There are nine Britons are among the 680 men from 42 countries held at Camp Delta. They were seized after the US attack on Afghanistan and branded "the hardest of the hard" by the US. They are held in cells eight feet by six feet eight inches, locked up for no less than 23 and a half hours a day, and bound hand and foot when out of their cell.

    The regime and conditions, including lights being left on outside the inmates' cells at night, have been condemned by international human rights groups and there have been 28 suicide attempts.

    Antonella Notari, spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross, said the hearings would need a presumption of innocence, defendants having adequate time and counsel to prepare their case, and the exclusion of any evidence gained through torture or through cruel or degrading treatment.

    Neil Durkin, of Amnesty International, said: "This development is worrying in the extreme.

    "We have been at pains for the past 18 months to point out that all circumstances in Guantanamo Bay flout international standards."
    http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,992075,00.html

    First you complain when we hold people without trial and now you complain when we are finally starting to put them on trial. Make up your minds people!
    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

  • #2
    Re: Concern as Britons face US tribunal

    Originally posted by DinoDoc

    First you complain when we hold people without trial and now you complain when we are finally starting to put them on trial. Make up your minds people!
    The word fair really needs to be used in that sentence somewhere.
    One day Canada will rule the world, and then we'll all be sorry.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's not really a trial is it? It's conducted in secret without impartial decision makers, and questions of procedural fairness remain.

      If there is to be a trial, give them a real trial, out in the open. Let's see any evidence, and let's see if a reasonable verdict is rendered.

      Moreover, I think no state bar should allow anyone who participates in a secret trial to keep their law licence (or obtain one later).
      - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
      - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
      - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh you joker you !

        Will they be executed before or after their fair trials ?
        There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.

        Comment


        • #5
          The military has its own seperate law schools from the public's. State Bar won't help. Pleading for reason won't help. Threatening sanctions that the "allies" can adhere to against the Bush Administration...might.

          Just a thought.
          The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

          The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by DRoseDARs
            The military has its own seperate law schools from the public's. State Bar won't help. Pleading for reason won't help. Threatening sanctions that the "allies" can adhere to against the Bush Administration...might.

            Just a thought.
            It would end the career of any JAG lawyer that participated. Moreover, it would discourage non-military lawyers from getting involved in any way with the trials. Such would help disrupt any hopes of these sham trials looking at all respectable.
            - "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
            - I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
            - "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming

            Comment


            • #7
              These people were caught in a war on foreign soil. There is no evidence that Taliban was directly involved in any attacks on the US. Thus, there is NO court that can try them except military tribunals or military courts. If you don't want them subject to tribunals, that's fine. They just won't have a trial at all then! I'm sure you'd prefer that, right?
              Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; July 5, 2003, 19:36.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

              Comment


              • #8
                State bar associations wouldn't particularly care for politicization of their admissions requirements. In fact, if you have a "secret" tribunal, you don't even have a way of verifying participation.

                These "tribunals" are complete horse****. There's absolutely no good reason why trials can't be held under the UCMJ and MCM.
                When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I didn't realize...anyone thought they looked respectable in the first place.

                  Anyway, I'd given up having anything more than apathetic feelings about the tribunal issue. There's very little anyone on the outside can do about them. Besides feel helpless to stop them.
                  The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                  The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
                    There's absolutely no good reason why trials can't be held under the UCMJ and MCM.
                    Well yeah. I'm just having a bit of fun at the moment.
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The lefty's would still complain it isn't a 'real' court though .
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the US admin is making a mistake here. It sets a dangerous precedent for future conlflicts, where US citizens could be caught up in war zones. It just seems the US govt is playing the totality systems at their own game.

                        I wait to see what the charges are before totally condemning these tribunals... but I can't help feeling Bush isn't just out on a limb, he's seriously out of the tree entirely on this issue.
                        Some cry `Allah O Akbar` in the street. And some carry Allah in their heart.
                        "The CIA does nothing, says nothing, allows nothing, unless its own interests are served. They are the biggest assembly of liars and theives this country ever put under one roof and they are an abomination" Deputy COS (Intel) US Army 1981-84

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X