Double Suicide Bombing in Moscow

[Imran Siddiqui]

They were invaded, after they attacked.

Yes, yes... but the Russians went after civilians first. Right? Shouldn't a modern civilized country whose forces have been attacked try to minimize civilian casulties and not just go after them indiscriminantly?

I think you just called me a racist.

Well you are .

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Azazel
"ragheads". Yep, I think you just called me a racist. How original.

Well yeah. Considering that I beat him to the punch by a few pages.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

They were invaded, after they attacked.

Yes, yes... but the Russians went after civilians first. Right?

No.

Shouldn't a modern civilized country whose forces have been attacked try to minimize civilian casulties and not just go after them indiscriminantly?

Now we come to the "modern civilized country" part. I, personally, think that everyone should be held to the same standards. Unless, you're interested in penalizing entities for being modern and civilized. We want the victory of the modern and the civilized, that's why penalizing it is lunacy.

I think you just called me a racist.

Well you are .

[Cruddy]

Originally posted by Azazel

They were invaded, after they attacked.

And has that invasion stopped the violence? No.

Originally posted by Azazel
I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH KILLING CIVILIANS. at least with one side, you surely have no problems.

Then so that you understand... I condemn all unprovoked attacks on noncombatants.

They only lead to more bloodshed. Shame on you Russia.

Originally posted by Azazel
Chechen separatists are not given air time. Well, not in interviews. More like Osama's tapes. Western Journalists are in chechniya. Remember that Brit Journalist that was murdered by the chechens? he was there, wasn't he?

Let's not forget the 3 Brit telecom engineers who were kidnapped and beheaded. As for a Brit war correspondant being killed - not the first, won't be the last. However, there is a big difference between having a couple of jounos on the ground and how it gets reported.

EDITOR: So, what's happening?
WARCO: Shelling, bombing, rape, mutilation of the dead.
EDITOR: No news there then.

Originally posted by Azazel
"ragheads". Yep, I think you just called me a racist. How original.

Again for the record, let me state I did not aim that remark at you. It was aimed to challenge those with such a belief.

If I had been accusing you Azazel, I woud have said so.

[Imran Siddiqui]

personally, think that everyone should be held to the same standards.

I don't. It's idiocy to hold a third world ****hole to the same standards as a modern democracy. The modern democracy is supposed to be more advanced. That's one of the tradeoffs you make... you be an advanced country, you lose the right to be a barbarian bastard.

[Az]

Originally posted by Cruddy
And has that invasion stopped the violence? No.

Any alternative ideas? Peace conference perhaps, to selebrate the invasion?

Then so that you understand... I condemn all unprovoked attacks on noncombatants.

They only lead to more bloodshed. Shame on you Russia.

Let's not forget the 3 Brit telecom engineers who were kidnapped and beheaded. As for a Brit war correspondant being killed - not the first, won't be the last. However, there is a big difference between having a couple of jounos on the ground and how it gets reported.

EDITOR: So, what's happening?
WARCO: Shelling, bombing, rape, mutilation of the dead.
EDITOR: No news there then.

You started whining about the Russians having something to hide, since they apparently don't let any reporters in. I've said that they do, and now you have trouble with the way it gets reported in "the west"?

Again for the record, let me state I did not aim that remark at you. It was aimed to challenge those with such a belief.

If I had been accusing you Azazel, I woud have said so.

Thank you.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

personally, think that everyone should be held to the same standards.

I don't. It's idiocy to hold a third world ****hole to the same standards as a modern democracy. The modern democracy is supposed to be more advanced. That's one of the tradeoffs you make... you be an advanced country, you lose the right to be a barbarian bastard.

Tradeoffs? against who exactly are we trading?

This is silly.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Tradeoffs? against who exactly are we trading?

The world. You make the jump, your scrutiny is increased in the world's eye. I mean really does anyone give a **** about the Tamil Tigers blowing up crap in India and Sri Lanka? NO! Because both countries haven't really made the jump. How can we hold them to the high standard of the West, when they haven't approached the civilization and prosperity of the West?

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Tradeoffs? against who exactly are we trading?

The world. You make the jump, your scrutiny is increased in the world's eye. I mean really does anyone give a **** about the Tamil Tigers blowing up crap in India and Sri Lanka? NO! Because both countries haven't really made the jump. How can we hold them to the high standard of the West, when they haven't approached the civilization and prosperity of the West?

I have no doubts that this is the way it works due to various reason such as the "the underdog is right" complex, the "noble savage" complex, and various other misconceptions. I thought we talked about the way it should be, not what way things are?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I thought we talked about the way it should be, not what way things are?

The way it should be? It's not feasible that the way it is will change to the way you think it should be. It'll never happen. So should's mean nothing if not grounded in some reality.

And if we are talking about the way it should be, then I still have no complaints. I don't mind when the bully gets beaten up.

[Az]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I thought we talked about the way it should be, not what way things are?

The way it should be? It's not feasible that the way it is will change to the way you think it should be. It'll never happen. So should's mean nothing if not grounded in some reality.

Then I guess we're not debating about the same thing. I am saying that the public is stupid in that, and guided by emotions, and not reasonable thoughts, You're saying "So what are you going to do about it?"

And if we are talking about the way it should be, then I still have no complaints. I don't mind when the bully gets beaten up.

You're one of the annoying bastards who was for Jerry as a kid, aren't you?

[Uncle Sparky]

Which country's standard should we hold the world to - the one holding "illegal combatants" at Guantanamo Bay for the last 1½ years? ... or the one occupying Iraq?

Maybe the US foreign policy of the Cold War was correct - maintain a balance of terror. I suggest we give all countries, including Palestine & Chechnya WMD. Then their leaders can concentrate on obliterating opposing armies & governments. Then regular civilians won't have to blow themselves (& other civilians) up !

I bet if you offered the Palestinian leadership enough attack helicopters to take out the Israeli tanks (and possibly the Israeli cabinet if necissary), they would make a real attempt to keep civilian casualties to a minimum.

[Sirotnikov]

You assume then that terrorism is only the result of a lack of force and not of 'barbarism'.

I think such an assumption is wrong.

I think that barbarism is sadly a part of some people who come to power, and is a part of some cultures, and is usually encouraged by religious strifes.

I think that given Helicopters, the chechens and palestinains, would do their best to kill as much Israeli population as possible, and commit absolute genocide.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You assume then that terrorism is only the result of a lack of force and not of 'barbarism'.

Yes, that is 100% correct. Terrorism is only used by those that cannot fight a war in conventional ways.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
You assume then that terrorism is only the result of a lack of force and not of 'barbarism'.

I think such an assumption is wrong.

I think that barbarism is sadly a part of some people who come to power, and is a part of some cultures, and is usually encouraged by religious strifes.

I think that given Helicopters, the chechens and palestinains, would do their best to kill as much Israeli population as possible, and commit absolute genocide.

Perhaps, probalby not, just as many Israelis would not mind the utter destruction of the Plaestinians in the occupied territories, though the majority not.