Republicans Fighting Against Davis Recall

[Sava]

Republicans Fight Davis Recall
Marvin: 'This Is Not A Banana Republic'
A small group of Republicans plans to raise money to oppose the recall of Democratic Gov. Gray Davis, saying it could lead to an "endless cycle of political instability."
"It could destroy whatever shred remains of civilized political discourse in this great state," GOP consultant Scott Barnett said in announcing the formation of Republicans Against the Recall.
Barnett was joined at a news conference outside a state office building by developer Mike Madigan and Bill Marvin, a former chairman of the San Diego County Republican Party, who said he was no fan of the governor.
"I'm not here to praise Caesar and I'm also not here to stick a knife in Caesar's back," Marvin said. "I'm here in defense of the process."
The state GOP should focus its efforts on helping President Bush win California in next year's election and electing Republicans to the legislature, he said, instead of gambling on a recall.
"This is not Venezuela, folks," Marvin said. "This is not a banana republic."
More ...

http://www.nbc11.com/politics/2309177/detail.html

I really have no opinion on the recall matter. I like the idea of having accountability, which is what a recall provides, but I also agree with the notion that it could bring instability. I'm torn on Davis... he's really screwed the budget up, although some of the problems were out of his control. And almost every other state in the union has had budget problems. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[GePap]

The problem I see with the recall is that no one yet has porvided any plans about how a new gov. could actually meet this budgetary black hole coming better than davis, and the political energies of the satte, instead of focusing on that budget black ole, get sucked into this issue. Couldn't they have started this after a budget was approved for the year?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
The problem I see with the recall is that no one yet has porvided any plans about how a new gov. could actually meet this budgetary black hole coming better than davis,

That's really not the point, although Davis has so little political capital (i.e. negative) that all he can do in the legislature is plead and lecture.

The real issues are that Davis presided over huge budget increases, while not focusing on improved quality of service - so state ineffiency went up, and the level of service improvement did not come close to matching the level of increased expenditure.

Davis panicked in the electricity crisis, sent all sorts of mixed and contradictory signals, then signed long term power contracts at the peak of the market, then tried to play games to reneg on them. Thus the financial markets as a whole, not just utility providers, view the state as untrustworthy, and likely to deal in bad faith.

Davis claimed he'd "solved" the power crisis, which went away as a result of recession, cooler summers and winters wet enough to recharge hydro resources. Davis completely tried to duck the issue of his signing high priced contracts and creating a huge future obligation, because Davis thought he could BS his way out of those contracts.

Davis was responsible for cooking state budget and revenue projections prior to his re-election campaign, to disguise the extent of the coming crisis, so it wouldn't be an election issue. Then magically, after he's reelected, whooopsies, California has some budget problems.

So the issue isn't who can clean up the mess better, it's whether or not Davis' lack of integrity, which is injurious to the state, should be tolerated.
[quote]

and the political energies of the satte, instead of focusing on that budget black ole, get sucked into this issue. Couldn't they have started this after a budget was approved for the year?

The budget is a legislative process, involving the governor. The recall is a popular process, involving petitions to go on the ballot, just the same as California's proposition process. If Davis had any real support, and was solving the budget in any real fashion, he wouldn't have to give a second thought to a recall.

Davis would love to tie the budget and recall issues together, to force the recall to be delayed until the March 2004 primary election, when the Dem political machine will be active, and will have to bail him out to spare themselves the embarassment of a successful recall, whether they want to bail him out or not.

[uh Clem]

The recall effort began within weeks of Davis's election last fall. William Safire has written against it, and a few days ago I read a column by Chris Ruddy (of NewsMax!!) that condemns it. But it goes on, and seems close to getting on the ballot.

Part of living in a republic is putting up with the fact that the other side gets to govern when they win the election. If you don't accept that, then you're undermining the system. The Republicans are acting the way they did during the Clinton impeachment.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Re: Republicans Fighting Against Davis Recall

Originally posted by Sava
I really have no opinion on the recall matter. I like the idea of having accountability, which is what a recall provides, but I also agree with the notion that it could bring instability.

The "stability" thing is more myth and fearmongering than anything else. A governor has to be extremely unpopular for people to be motivated to remove him - it's never been done in California's history. One could argue that there's less "stability" in having elected officials essentially untouchable for four years, once they skate past an election, no matter how they screw up.

I'm torn on Davis... he's really screwed the budget up, although some of the problems were out of his control. And almost every other state in the union has had budget problems. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Actually, a majority of the budget problems, and much of the state's loss of credibility and rating in the financial markets, is directly in Davis' control. The state has tons of money, but in all sorts of special purpose funds, and bureaucratic games. The state has lots of unnecessary agencies, and an incredibly poor efficiency in delivering services compared to the revenue costs.

BTW, the Davis defenders like to point out how every other state in the union has budget problems, but they don't bother with the fact that California's budget problems are about the size of the rest of the states combined, and California already has the highest overall tax burden.

[Sava]

BTW, the Davis defenders like to point out how every other state in the union has budget problems, but they don't bother with the fact that California's budget problems are about the size of the rest of the states combined, and California already has the highest overall tax burden.

good points... do you thin Davis should be recalled, MtG?

[GePap]

The real issues are that Davis presided over huge budget increases, while not focusing on improved quality of service - so state ineffiency went up, and the level of service improvement did not come close to matching the level of increased expenditure.

And the very public now signing those petitions went along with all of it, to the point that they elected davis yet again. And the state legislature went along as well, to all that Davis precided over. Oh, and you forgot to mention that the budget back hole was also due to massive tax cuts, which i am sure the public backed as well.
And now thatthere is this crisis, lets spend our time trying to kick Davis out, wih=thout thinking much about how the next governor will undo all that was done by davis, and the legislature, and the voters (who could have started a recall when Davis was doing all the things you said above, BUT didn't)

[DanS]

The fighting against the Davis recall should be paired with an indictment of his policies and the complicity of the democrats in those policies.

The quotes above don't give me much confidence. Davis shouldn't be compared with a figure of great power (Caesar) or perserverence (Chavez). Rather, they should attempt to paint the democrats with the broad brush of Davis. For instance, they could pick out 5 or 10 leading democratic figures and attach them rhetorically to the Davis tarbaby.

The Republicans would be best served by 999,999 signatures on the recall petition.

[GePap]

That would be highly unliekly to work. Even after Davis falls, the most likely replacement would be a democrat as well.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by uh Clem
Part of living in a republic is putting up with the fact that the other side gets to govern when they win the election. If you don't accept that, then you're undermining the system. The Republicans are acting the way they did during the Clinton impeachment.

So we certainly shouldn't have hounded ol' Nixon out of office, then should we?

Of course, Davis should be rewarded, and the state's resident's punished, because Davis concealed the extent of the budget crisis, because he committed the state to high-priced contracts for no good reason because he thought he'd later be able to get out of them, etc.

The Republicans aren't doing **** - it takes a majority of the voters of this Democrat state to remove the governor from office. The poll numbers in California among registered Democrats for removing Davis are high. If Davis is seen as so bad he can't even count on support from the committed members of his own party, then he has some real problems.

You can't "undermine the system" by using a part of it as provided by law for the very purposes it was provided.

I'm not surprised that professional politicians and their whores are coming out against the recall - the same way they come out against term limits, real campaign finance reform, or any other measure that makes politicians accountable to those who put them in positions of high responsibility and trust.

If the recall succeeds, it will send out a message to virtually every non-Federal elected officeholder that the people are fed up with the status quo, and that because you and your party machine may bull**** your way to election, but you're not exempt from accountability for your actions.

God forbid the common rabble have more to say in the political process.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Sava
good points... do you thin Davis should be recalled, MtG?

Hell yeah!

And BTW, I've never voted for a Republican governor, and I voted for Davis the first time (not in the reelection though, since I wasn't not a California resident) but I'll vote to recall Davis, and if Republicans are the only ones on the ballot, then I'll pick one to replace Davis. In fact, I've changed my legal residency back so I can vote in California elections (the bastards tax me the same whether I'm resident or non-resident, so why the hell not?), specifically to recall that greasy SOB.

[GePap]

God forbid the common rabble have more to say in the political process

The already do, every so often: they are called elections. The US has never been a direct democracy. It would also be nice if the whole porcess did not get started by a partisan that has spent millions of dollars to get the whole campaing moving. It was not a bunch of citizens that just got together and started to do this and begun with small grass roots support. It was stared by a rich partisan willing to spend millions to get it done. So this is not a full "victory for the common people", given the champion leading the campaign.

[uh Clem]

Davis sucks. Nobody's ever disputed that, and lots of Democrats have disliked him more than Republicans do.

But spewing BS, etc, (and from a politician of all people) doesn't fall into the same category as criminality. The Nixon analogy falls flat.

Maybe his recall would teach politicians something, but forcing Californians to put up with him for another 3-1/2 years might teach the voters something, as well.

[DarthVeda]

Oh come on you know everybody wants Ah-Nold for governer of california!

[Ted Striker]

Recall his punk ass

Then put the Terminator or **** Riorden in charge.

But not Bill Simon.