What are the pros and cons of state owned businesses?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Spiffor

Daily efficiency of the system. If people aren't accountable for their performance, they'll have very little involvement in making the public company work properly (this is what killed the Soviet economy).

And if public companies aren't efficient, you are making our opponents right.

Right. Davout was saying that we couldn't achieve our goals and fire incompetent managers I think.

[Kidlicious]

This is how I invision it. Demand is determined with prices. Supply is determined by the central planners who set the prices. Priorities have to be set so that shortages do not occur for basic necessities like they do in capitalist countries like the US. First priorities would be the basic necessities; food, shelter, medical care etc.. Next should be inputs; steel, paper etc... After that you should make Sid Meier's games . Prices for luxury goods should be set so that resources will not be taken away from higher priority goods.

All the central planners do is set the prices. 'Just in time' inventory control should be used by the firms to get the products to the customers at the precise quantity demanded.

[Spiffor]

Kid:
I don't envision it like that at all. Maybe because I don't believe in all the "supply will always meet demand and demand solely depends on price" theory.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Kid:
I don't envision it like that at all. Maybe because I don't believe in all the "supply will always meet demand and demand solely depends on price" theory.

I didn't think I said that demand depends on price. Prices should be used to allocate resources. Demand can be measured by peoples willingness to make the purchase at particular prices. Some things you know what the demand is. For example, there is unlimited demand for health care as far as it is needed. That is, if you have the money, and you need health care, you will pay any price for it.

How do you invision it?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Spiffor, that's true. Demand doesn't solely depend on price. For example in the automobile market. You have situations where the lower the price, the less desirable that car is. The higher priced models are more desirable not only because they are made better, but because of the 'cool' factor. That's hard to actually plot (the social cool factor ).

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Spiffor, that's true. Demand doesn't solely depend on price. For example in the automobile market. You have situations where the lower the price, the less desirable that car is. The higher priced models are more desirable not only because they are made better, but because of the 'cool' factor. That's hard to actually plot (the social cool factor ).

It shouldn't be plotted. It shouldn't be of concern, or at least it should be very low priority.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Why a very low priority? Sometimes the 'cool' factor can be very important! Ask any car maker, and they'll tell you .

I don't have anything philosophically opposed to Az's system, I just don't think it'll work. Government controlling industries and LETTING them be financially independant? Naw... I think in a few years the CEOs are suddenly going to be politicians' kids . And that efficiency and profit (to the government) won't be streesed as much as other things. I guess I'm cynical that way .

[Az]

demand isn't how much people want something, but how much people have both the will and the cash to get it.

[Az]

That's why we won't let the politicians do the hiring.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Why a very low priority? Sometimes the 'cool' factor can be very important! Ask any car maker, and they'll tell you .

Now are you talking about conspicuous consumption, where people buy products to gains social status? In that case it should be discouraged and it will be since incomes will be fairly equal; people will have little incentive to consume in that manner.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Azazel
demand isn't how much people want something, but how much people have both the will and the cash to get it.

Demand is how much you need and want something. Prices determine how much you will actually buy.

[Az]

agreed, agreed. I was thinking of something else.

[Imran Siddiqui]

In that case it should be discouraged and it will be since incomes will be fairly equal

Yeah, making incomes equal with DISCOURAGE the cool factor! BULL! It'll make it higher. You need something to impress the neighbors. In fact, most of the time I've seen people buying something new and expensive it is to impress the people that make the same as they do, not to impress someone else.

And why should it be discouraged? It makes people happy to have new, better things. It adds to the quality of life. I always knew you were against happyiness, now I have proof .

That's why we won't let the politicians do the hiring.

Who does the hiring? And if it is controlled by the government, won't it indirectly do the hiring? If not, if something happens (a recession for instance), don't you think perhaps the people will elect those politicians that will pass laws giving more control over the companies (to prevent layoffs)?

[Az]

I don't see why it should be discouraged either. to a certain degree it's healthy.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

In that case it should be discouraged and it will be since incomes will be fairly equal

Yeah, making incomes equal with DISCOURAGE the cool factor! BULL! It'll make it higher. You need something to impress the neighbors. In fact, most of the time I've seen people buying something new and expensive it is to impress the people that make the same as they do, not to impress someone else.

And why should it be discouraged? It makes people happy to have new, better things. It adds to the quality of life. I always knew you were against happyiness, now I have proof .

Let's just say it should be low priority and there will be less demand for it since there will be much less inequality. What would the point be for purchasing in this manner if everyone could do it too? You wouldn't be demonstrating your superiour purchasing power, because everyone will know that you don't have superiour purchasing power. You would be wasting your money.