U.S. Bans Military Aid to Almost 50 Countries

[GePap]

Originally posted by Oerdin


That's complete nonsense, Gepap. Money isn't free. Our government is "giving" people money in order to have influence over them, and to a very lesser degree to help them, so insisting they not institute policies we find harmful to our national interests is a fairly reasonable request.

To think that the possible, but imporbable, "threat" to US servicemen coming under prosecution from the ICJ is in any way equal to the policies of enlargiung NATO, the Rummy pet "New Europe" notion, or the War on Drugs (at least for this gov) is absurd.

maybe the ICJ is important to ppl in washington? I dont think petty is an accurate word because I don't think the bush administration is stupid. infact they've shown to be very calculating thus far.

Calculating does not mean bright all the time. These guys have an ideological problem with the whole notion of the ICJ, and they figure that they can bribe all these states into backing our little attempt to undermine it this way. maybe we will succeed in cajoling these states, but we will pay a price much ehavier that any gains.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by GePap


To think that the possible, but imporbable, "threat" to US servicemen coming under prosecution from the ICJ is in any way equal to the policies of enlargiung NATO, the Rummy pet "New Europe" notion, or the War on Drugs (at least for this gov) is absurd.

maybe the ICJ is important to ppl in washington? I dont think petty is an accurate word because I don't think the bush administration is stupid. infact they've shown to be very calculating thus far.

Calculating does not mean bright all the time. These guys have an ideological problem with the whole notion of the ICJ, and they figure that they can bribe all these states into backing our little attempt to undermine it this way. maybe we will succeed in cajoling these states, but we will pay a price much ehavier that any gains.

none of those policies will be lost causes because of this.

u seem to constantly bring up how "the world hates us now." u've done it like 4 times already. hasn't the world always hated us? didn't they hate our last decision and the one before that? I think I'm getn use to it by now. the world is going to hate us. that has been established, lets move on.

[GePap]

Actually I haven't said anything about the world hating the US: get your posters straight if you want to argue.

hasn't the world always hated us?

Actually, not at all. What reason was there to hate the US pre-1950, at least, outside of Latin America? and parts of Asia? None, really. Maybe you should think why America is disliked now.

[GePap]

none of those policies will be lost causes because of this.

Only if the other states decide to do what the admin wants them too. If they say no to the admin, then either the US no longer gives them military aid, which will be a big problem, speically for Colombia, ro the US is forced to back down, which is a loss of face for the admin. And even if the admin. wins, these state (many of them very pro-US) will learn that one can not trust the Bush admin, becuase they only look out for themselves (not the US, themselves and their ideologies).

[yavoon]

Originally posted by GePap
Actually I haven't said anything about the world hating the US: get your posters straight if you want to argue.

hasn't the world always hated us?

Actually, not at all. What reason was there to hate the US pre-1950, at least, outside of Latin America? and parts of Asia? None, really. Maybe you should think why America is disliked now.

oh ok pre 1950 but only outside certain regions. hahaha. I've grown up w/ the world hating us. I've been told 7883823 times in the last 4 years that the world hates us. and this next decision will only make them hate us more. its just lost its effect. I don't care anymore.

I am perfectly happy acting in my interests. I feel no need to placate. I don't wanna buy the world flowers. I don't think giving the world free crap is something they are entitled to. in general my perspective is just vastly different from yours.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Like it or not foreign aid comes with strings. If someone doesn't like the strings then they should forgo accepting the handout.

Certainly. Those "strings" are the working relationships we get with professional officers in the military forces of allies or prospectively useful proxies.

I wonder what happens when everyone figures out they can do without IMET, and that they can get hardware from other sources a little less anal about applying rules and restrictions on what you do with your hardware.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
Actually, not at all. What reason was there to hate the US pre-1950, at least, outside of Latin America? and parts of Asia? None, really. Maybe you should think why America is disliked now.

We just didn't have global reach back then.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Certainly. Those "strings" are the working relationships we get with professional officers in the military forces of allies or prospectively useful proxies.

I wonder what happens when everyone figures out they can do without IMET, and that they can get hardware from other sources a little less anal about applying rules and restrictions on what you do with your hardware.

less anal ppl usually want money.

[GePap]

Originally posted by yavoon
I am perfectly happy acting in my interests. I feel no need to placate. I don't wanna buy the world flowers. I don't think giving the world free crap is something they are entitled to. in general my perspective is just vastly different from yours.

And this is what you don;t get. No one here is saying the reason this is wrong is "becuase the Us is taking away aid, and they deserve our money and we should never do somehitng for our interests"

We are saying this is wrong becuase it is stupid policy. The pet project of undermining the ICJ is not even in the same order of magnitude as the other policies that this law might undermine. It harms US interests to do this, it does not help.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by GePap


And this is what you don;t get. No one here is saying the reason this is wrong is "becuase the Us is taking away aid, and they deserve our money and we should never do somehitng for our interests"

We are saying this is wrong becuase it is stupid policy. The pet project of undermining the ICJ is not even in the same order of magnitude as the other policies that this law might undermine. It harms US interests to do this, it does not help.

yes ur right I was speaking more in the general. thats why I wasn't replying to ur arguments of the specific.

[Sava]

I think the United States exploits enough of the world to owe it something.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Sava
I think the United States exploits enough of the world to owe it something.

haha classic.

[JCG]

Originally posted by GePap

We are saying this is wrong becuase it is stupid policy. The pet project of undermining the ICJ is not even in the same order of magnitude as the other policies that this law might undermine. It harms US interests to do this, it does not help.

That's exactly the point.

And yavoon, you might not care about being hated/seen in a negative light only, but you should certainly care about the practical consequences, which may touch your country every so often (violently, god-forbid).

Of course, this is all part of a much larger (and longer) process, not just based solely on this decision, but "every little bit helps" (or harms, actually).

[yavoon]

Originally posted by JCG


That's exactly the point.

And yavoon, you might not care about being hated/seen in a negative light only, but you should certainly care about the practical consequences, which may touch your country every so often (violently, god-forbid).

Of course, this is all part of a much larger (and longer) process, not just based solely on this decision, but "every little bit helps" (or harms, actually).

like I"ve already pointed out. I've spent my entire life(or the entire time I cared). being graciously informed that the rest of the world hates me. It just doesn't affect me nemore. I'm not interested in yet another person saying "well the world REALLY HATES U NOW." its just meh. I don't consider it a valid objection nemore.

[Odin]

Those morons, they are just bringing the revolution nearer. The US is digging itself it's grave, The US is loosing credibillity, soon they will loose so much credibility that we will have a world war, the US vs. everyone else, and we will loose.