Israelis withdraw from Gaza

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Azazel



They don't want to. we wouldn't act against the palestinians at all if they got their **** together, and stopped the attacks against us.

lotm: Abu Mazen has specifically said that he won't fight Hamas. instead, there is some half-assed truce with terrorist organizations that maybe would, and maybe wouldn't be honoured.

yup he said it. In public. Which makes sense. Since hes not strong enough to fight them yet. And they MAY go along. Theres lots of stuff going around indicating his views in private are different, including a piece in this AM's New York Times, as well as items in Ha'aretz. You can choose to disbelieve both sources if you wish.

Right now the calculations are running. Hamas is at most about 2000 fighters. Dahlan probably controls at least that many. The larger share of the PA security forces are still under Yasser or are otherwise not reliable. At some point, fairly soon, "I'm not strong enough" ceases to be an excuse. Thats when Condi comes to Mazen with an ultimatum. Meanwhile the goal is to get him to that point.

[Solver]

Please note that Israel doesn't care about what do those terrorists announce. They do not negotiate with terrorists, and never did. And hopefully never will. Abu-Mazl is the only one who can negotiate.

Hey, does anyone in Israel like the Road Map at all?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Please note that Israel doesn't care about what do those terrorists announce. They do not negotiate with terrorists, and never did. And hopefully never will. Abu-Mazl is the only one who can negotiate.

Hey, does anyone in Israel like the Road Map at all?

hi ,

no-one likes the EU / UN / russian one inwhere neither us nor the pals where invited to participate , a couple days later we pulled ourselves together from the surprise and went to jordan to fix things ourselfs , .....

its a far going agreement , lets hope no-one who has nothing to do with us comes down again to spoil things , ....... as long as the EU and EU and russia and a whole bunch of other buggers stay out , yes we do actually have a chance to succeed , .....

now all we have to do is hope there is no outside party that comes to tell us what to do , ....

have a nice day

[Solver]

Well, seeing how the terrorists are happy to break the ceasifre, and I'm sure more cases like this will take place, the rest of the world will have to see that they can't do stuff like that.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Well, seeing how the terrorists are happy to break the ceasifre, and I'm sure more cases like this will take place, the rest of the world will have to see that they can't do stuff like that.

hi ,

we tend to be a very patient nation , .......

but like always , no-one cares about the seven breaks allready so far , ....... all from one side , .......

but if we where to fire one bullet , oh boy , the whole world shall go screaming that we broke the deal , .....

have a nice day

[Solver]

Well, they WILL have to accept that there's no true ceasefire if there are more shootings.

And yes, that's the way politics work .

[Panag]

Originally posted by Solver
Well, they WILL have to accept that there's no true ceasefire if there are more shootings.

And yes, that's the way politics work .

hi ,

sure , thats what we thought when they broke the oslo deal , .....

but they keep at bay now , as long as the most powerfull woman in the world is in our country , .....

have a nice day

[Panag]

arafats march for victory , .......

Arafat Prepares Victory March
*****************************

For the Palestinians to begin upholding their June 4 Aqaba summit
pledges, another strong shove was needed from Washington. It was
administered this week in a telephone call from US secretary of state
Colin Powell to Palestinian internal security minister Mohamed
Dahlan. DEBKAfile's Washington sources report Powell as saying in
effect: The Hamas everyone is talking about is made up of no more
than 500 to 1,000 armed men. If Dahlan can't get them under control
and stop their terrorist activity, "someone else" will take over and
finish them off one by one.

A demonstration quickly followed. Early Friday, June 27, a team of
the Israeli naval commando Unit 13 raided a Hamas fastness in the
southern Gaza Strip, killing three terrorists and capturing another
three. The Israeli side lost one fighter, Staff Sgt. Erez Ashkenazi,
21, from Kibbutz Reshafim.

A few hours later, the Palestinian minister dropped his unremitting
demands for Israeli and American concessions and resigned himself to
finally talking turkey. He agreed to assume Palestinian
responsibility for terror prevention in the areas turned over by the
Israeli military and promised also to act on Israeli intelligence
tip-offs on impending attacks. Whereupon Israel set a date for
pulling its troops back from the Gaza Strip and Bethlehem, starting
Monday, June 30 and reopening its borders to Palestinian traffic.

The deal is far from perfect. The Palestinian commitment defers
action to stop Qassam missile and mortar strikes against Israeli
locations in the Gaza Strip and southern Israeli to some time in the
future. Moreover, there is no timeline for the dismantlement of
terrorist organizations promised by Abu Mazan and strenuously
demanded by Israel and President George W. Bush. The Abu Mazen-Dahlan
team is counting on saving themselves the trouble of breaking up the
Hamas, Fatah and Jihad Islami terror groups by accepting the flimsy
ceasefire on offer despite its tough conditions.

Yet Israel is pulling back pretty much to the lines it held up until
Yasser Arafat's armed confrontation erupted on September 29, 2000. A
trilateral US-Israeli-Palestinian mechanism led by the American CIA
is left to monitor the implementation of these accords - even though
this recipe failed disastrously once before. The same mechanism
collapsed in the hail of bullets the Palestinian liaison officers
fired at their Israeli counterparts soon after September 29 while
they were on joint patrols and together in their shared liaison
headquarters.

Still, the White House is cautiously praising the new arrangements.
Powell pronounced them a step forward in the long haul toward a
Palestinian state. Backed by the winds of optimism blowing from
Washington, the US president's national security adviser, Condoleezza
Rice, lands in the region Saturday, June 28, to usher in the new
chapter and mark its place in the frame of overall US Middle East
planning. Saturday she holds talks with Palestinian leaders followed
by meetings with Israeli leaders on Sunday.

In the welter of accords, palaver and cautious celebrations, no one
is mentioning Yasser Arafat or checking to see how irrelevant he
really is to all the new arrangements.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's Palestinian sources rectified this omission in its
latest issue of June 28.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's Palestinian sources reveal that the Palestinian
president Yasser Arafat has big plans for the coming period of
"calm". For some weeks, he and his senior aides have been working on
preparations for a grand victory march. Among its objectives will be
a demonstration that Arafat was clever enough to extort American and
Israeli recognition for a Palestinian state by a sustained campaign
of terror, that he is not done yet, and that Palestinian prime
minister Abbas is a nobody who had the gall to challenge his
authority.

Some of the ministers whom Arafat planted in the Abbas cabinet joined
in the preparations. The march will reach its climax with Arafat's
arrival in the Gaza Strip. He will be presented as the savior whose
brilliant policies brought about the removal of Israel's military
presence from the territory and delivered him from the Israeli siege
that kept him trapped in Ramallah from May 2002.

The fact that for the last six months Arafat has been free to travel
where he pleased in Palestinian areas or overseas will not be
mentioned for fear of marring his appearance of great suffering in
the Palestinian cause.

What really kept him confined to his quarters in Ramallah,
DEBKA-Net-Weekly 's Palestinian sources stress, was his obligation to
shelter the 180-200 master-terrorists of his own Fatah, Tanzim and Al
Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, as well as masterminds of the Popular Fronts,
the Hamas and a group of Hizballah agents who were planted on the
West Bank. All of them are wanted by Israel for orchestrating major
terrorist attacks and murder and live under Arafat personal
protection. His presence in the Ramallah headquarters guarantees
their safety. Since Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon promised
President George W. Bush that he would not harm Arafat in person, the
wanted terrorists under his protection are out of Israel's reach.

This immunity was again demonstrated after the Aqaba summit on June 4
when Sharon gave the US president another promise, this one to
restrict the Israeli campaign of targeted assassinations against
terrorist activists to members of Hamas in the Gaza Strip and
"ticking bombs", meaning suicide terrorists on their way to target
with explosives on their person.

Since June 4, senior terrorist commanders, controllers and recruiters
have accordingly been immune from Israeli preventive operations.

Word that Israeli troops will soon quit Bethlehem has generated an
exodus to this future safe haven of hundreds of wanted Palestinian
terrorists from their strongholds all over the West Bank to escape
Israeli capture and liquidations. They are now gathering in Bethlehem
region of the West Bank abutting Jerusalem which was cleansed of
terrorists to stop the Palestinian shooting campaign that long
plagued the Jerusalem district of Gilo.

As a result of the immunity won at Aqaba, some of the master
terrorists sheltered by Arafat have begun trickling out of the
Ramallah headquarters ? at first staying close to their havens, but
soon moving farther afield to West Bank towns.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly's counter-terror exports say that these escapees
from Arafat's quarters have three things in common:

1. They make sure to return "home" before dark and stay there till
morning.

2. They are handed detailed instructions by Muhamed Damra, Arafat's
chief operations officer, regarding their West Bank destinations,
which terror cells to contact and what terror operations to set up
until a "ceasefire" goes into effect. That is why all the shooting
and suicide attacks in the last few days, most of them thwarted,
emanated from the West Bank and not the Gaza Strip.

3. They have been put to work designing a terror campaign in the
post-ceasefire period - also from the West Bank. Like Israel's
military withdrawals, it will be executed in stages, the
infrastructures restored in the areas evacuated by Israeli troops.

DEBKAfile adds: To make sure the Palestinians and everyone else
understands who really calls the shots, Arafat summoned Palestinian
security and intelligence officers, including Dahlan, to a conference
at his Ramallah headquarters Friday night, June 27, to personally vet
every detail of the various accords to be announced next day and make
sure all the terror groups had fully coordinated their ceasefire
announcements. He also demanded to be shown the intelligence tip-offs
Dahlan has begun to receive from the Americans and Israelis on coming
terrorist action, on the principle that forewarned is forearmed.

In view of Arafat's short and long-term planning, the great effort
invested by President Bush, Powell, Rice and the Israeli and
Palestinian prime ministers in the latest diplomatic breakthrough
will have three immediate results:

A. Abbas's prestige will take a nosedive which may well lead him into
retirement.

B. The lifting of Israeli military pressure will grant Hamas in the
Gaza Strip a chance to regroup and rearm, while Palestinian terrorist
activity from the West Bank is sustained.

C. Yasser Arafat will enjoy a revival of prestige in the eyes of the
Palestinians and Israeli Arabs having demonstrated by the Israeli
withdrawal under pressure from Washington that the Americans, the
Israelis, Abu Mazen. Dahlan are still dancing to his tune and that
terrorism pays. If 33 months of violence brings such rich dividends,
then why not go on until Israel is brought to total collapse? Thus
far DEBKA-Net-Weekly No. 114

A recent opinion poll shows 73 percent Israeli support for the
US-brokered accommodations reached with the Palestinians. This is not
because the average Israeli does not understand what is going on but
because he will do anything for a few days of calm and has given up
hope of the Sharon government providing even a short break in the
violence. The poll does not represent an optimistic view of the
future but the despairing acceptance of the smallest respite in an
anguished routine.

[muxec]

EU/UN/Russian politics are ruled by oil, dont forget. If Israel had oil they would suggest better plan.
UN always does nothing. For example: Did UN try to do something real during the cruisis in Argentina?

[Panag]

Originally posted by muxec
EU/UN/Russian politics are ruled by oil, dont forget. If Israel had oil they would suggest better plan.
UN always does nothing. For example: Did UN try to do something real during the cruisis in Argentina?

hi ,

we have gas , ..... if we would only start to drill for it , .....

and we could have kept the oil we ones had if we would have never given the sinai back , .....

have a nice day

[muxec]

Very few amount of gas that can not give a lot of enrgy/money

[Panag]

Originally posted by muxec
Very few amount of gas that can not give a lot of enrgy/money

hi ,

not according to some , ..... right in front of the coast of Tel-Aviv , .....

more test and experimental drilling in the spring of 2004 , ....

some small company allready filed a claim and asked for the right permits in the geology and natural resources dept , ......

it does sound reasonable , .....

so lets hope for it

not to mention that there are serious plans now for several large sunpanel and windmill parks in the Negev , ...... IAI is looking in the windmills now , .....

and there is the canal to the death sea , there is talk about a small water dam to get some power out of that aswell , .....

have a great day