Supremes Uphold Right to Gay Sex!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Guiliani saved New York City by being 'tough on crime' and other 'conservative' agendas public opinion would greatly change... to the right.

We'll try to remember to thank Giuliani when we get out of the crippling economic crisis his policies left us in.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Without him, your city would still be known as a murder capital. You should at least thank him for that .

And of course 9/11 would have nothing to do with the bad economy in NYC .

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Without him, your city would still be known as a murder capital. You should at least thank him for that .

Questionable. The murder rate was declining when Giuliani came to power, and is now climbing again, despite no change in how the NYPD is operating (they're as draconian as ever). Why? Economic good times.

And of course 9/11 would have nothing to do with the bad economy in NYC .

Even without September 11th, we would still be screwed today. Not quite as screwed, but still screwed. Giuliani spent the last two years of his administration on his marriage woes moreso than the city's issues. Had Sept. 11th not happened, he would have left office fairly unpopular (his approval ratings were quite low before the attacks).

[Imran Siddiqui]

Questionable. The murder rate was declining when Giuliani came to power, and is now climbing again, despite no change in how the NYPD is operating (they're as draconian as ever). Why? Economic good times.

But would economic good times account for ALL of that? I mean are crime rates now as they were in the Dinkins and Koch years?

Even without September 11th, we would still be screwed today. Not quite as screwed, but still screwed.

Everyone would with the bubble bursting, but it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

Had Sept. 11th not happened, he would have left office fairly unpopular (his approval ratings were quite low before the attacks).

I realize that, but he was quite popular OUTSIDE the city .

[Novaya Havoc]

Fine, take my (fairly obvious) hyperbole out into literal context. Conservatives rally people into believing that their money is being used to support homosexual propaganda. It is about creating division and inciting fear.

And yes, my high school did celebrate a latino history, and black history month. It also had a school GSA and a "Day of Silence" in observance of gay abuse.

But -- does that stop students from asking a woman perfoming a Harriet Tubman skit from asking "Why isn't there a Caucasian Awareness Club?"

There are months set aside for history or diversity, but nothing of importance was learned in them. True tolerance of minority groups -- including gays -- at my inner-city school was due to co-existing with them, or if not co-exisitng, simply by a force of association.

Suburbia and conservatism work at keeping those boundaries, to play both sides against one another so that a 3rd party can achieve power.

That cannot be denied.

-Ben

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But would economic good times account for ALL of that? I mean are crime rates now as they were in the Dinkins and Koch years?

Not yet, but they could conceivably get there. I certainly don't feel quite as safe as I did 3 years ago when I moved here. I wouldn't say Giuliani deserves no credit for the crime rate, he does. And not all that much else. And I think we're beginning to see the cons of his leadership may have outweighed the pros.

Everyone would with the bubble bursting, but it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.

Likewise, I'd argue that had Giuliani acted with sound fiscal management, things wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are and we would have been able to absorb the blow of Sept. 11th better.

I realize that, but he was quite popular OUTSIDE the city .

As nice as it must be to be loved by somebody, it really was the opinion of NYC residents that counted, since they were the ones subjected to his administrative shortcomings.

[Sava]

Thurgood Marshall (I'm sure you've heard of him) was an NAACP lawyer, and then when he was on the SCOTUS he did not recuse himself from law suits that the NAACP brought up. Are you going to be consistant and call Justice Marshall corrupt as well?

I'm not familiar with the case, but from what I've heard, it doesn't sound nearly as bad as Scalia and his corrupt friends. I'd have to know more about the situation before making a decision.

[Imran Siddiqui]

But -- does that stop students from asking a woman perfoming a Harriet Tubman skit from asking "Why isn't there a Caucasian Awareness Club?"

It's a good question . Black History should be woven in, not have a whole month, when you fail to talk about the Cold War in your class.

Suburbia and conservatism work at keeping those boundaries, to play both sides against one another to achieve power.

That cannot be denied.

I'm denying it. Yep, just did .

I'd argue that had Giuliani acted with sound fiscal management, things wouldn't be nearly as bad as they are and we would have been able to absorb the blow of Sept. 11th better.

When this is happening all over the country it is hard (IMO) to blame one politican (even if it is Gray Davis in California). Even if you blame Guiliani, he ain't the only one that deserves blame.

And you have to admit that Guiliani handled the 9/11 situation MUCH better than Messenger (I believe that was his opponent in his last election) would probably have.

[Novaya Havoc]

Caucasian Awareness Month = US History / AP European History (both of which I have taken)

Caucasian Awarness Club = National Honor Society

There is not a class -- in High School -- where I can learn about the history of the Khmers, or about Songhai, but I can write a term paper on the history, possession, and partitioning of the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg.

I went to a Catholic, suburban school for most of my life. I prefer integration and my urban secondary education, thank you. Bark all you'd like: conservatism is division.

-Ben

[Boris Godunov]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

When this is happening all over the country it is hard (IMO) to blame one politican (even if it is Gray Davis in California). Even if you blame Guiliani, he ain't the only one that deserves blame.

So because Giuliani isn't the only one to blame, he should get no blame?

And you have to admit that Guiliani handled the 9/11 situation MUCH better than Messenger (I believe that was his opponent in his last election) would probably have.

No way of knowing, any moreso than the specious claims that Bush handled it better than Gore would have.

Regardless, Giuliani didn't really do much after Sept. 11th other than appear calm on TV and present a stiff upper lip for NY. I'm not saying that's nothing, but it ain't much. He was a lame duck mayor, and the coordination of rescue efforts was out of his hands thanks to FEMA.

It was a clear case of the times making the man. He rode the wave of popularity generated by his prominent position as NYC mayor after the attacks. He should be thankful it erased the sour memories of the previous two years filled with his marital woes, police depatment excesses and racial antagonism filling the headlines.

[Sava]

So because Giuliani isn't the only one to blame, he should get no blame?

There's a lot of that going around lately.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Sava
There's a lot of that going around lately.

Ken Lay is relieved!

[Sava]

Ken Lay is relieved!

I bet. He should be burned at the stake for wasting tens of millions of taxpayer dollars.

The whole "not-guilty because everyone's doing it" is the common excuse I hear from most posters who defend corruption in the government.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Novaya Havoc
But -- does that stop students from asking a woman perfoming a Harriet Tubman skit from asking "Why isn't there a Caucasian Awareness Club?"

I would have told the student, they already have one, it's called America.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat

And frankly, though I'm a Democrat . . . .

huh??