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As I expected, the capitalism-communism thread ended before I returned. If people whish to really continue it here, they can. I simply want to make one observation.
As always, people come out and say that somehow "communism is against human nature" and that since capitalism wors within human nature, it can work: and why do they say this? Becuase they believe people are greedy and violent, and since they think (even though it isn;t actually true) that in communism greed is somehow outlawed, man will revolt against it, but not against capiatlsim. In short, that capitalism allows man to wallow in his own filth and be happy, instead of trying to unnaturally hose him off.
All of which sounds somewhat plausible until you look around you. I mean it, look. We live as far away form "human nature" as outlined above as anyone ever has.
Man is driven by greed and violence and he can't change? If so, why have we criminalized killing for honor, killing for faith? We have criminalized slavery, usery, beating your spouse: having your servants burried alive or dead (after killinfg them) to serve you in the hear-after. We have criminalized rape, having the wife throw herself in the fires of the husbands pyre, human sacrfice, even animal sacrifice. Letting the cripples and sick babies to die from exposure has been outlawed. Blood sports, the razing of cities, the decimation of units to teach them loyalty, punishment by cutting off limbs. When we aim to kill, we even go so far as to try to do it "humanely". Even the litte things, like vicious torture of criminals, drawn and quarterings, the rack, cruxifictions, burnings at the stakes, even these things that used to draw crowds are now banned. Even against animals this is banned. We live in a culture so removed form death that most posters here would get naseaus seeing their food slaughtered and cut up in front of them, so divorced form death (an omnipresent reality of being alive) that seeing someone die is a rare event, only a bit more rare than even seeing a dead body.
We live regimented lives, were all sorts of rules 'for our own good" abound, and many here defend them all. And yet these very same people say that man is so terrible that he can;t change and thus capitalism is the answer? Can;t change? What have we done then? Decked ourselves in silk lcothing, we fine monkeys? Is that all you think we have done?
People who say this are like guys playing monopoly and talking about how ruthless they are by how they play, when in fact if they were ruthless they would attempt to grab the board and beat the other players senseless with it. We are so rthless in fact, that instead of deciding who is boos by seeing who's boot is on whose throat, we decide to compete by seeing who can amass the most trinkets, numbers on a spreadsheet, and little pieces of paper with ink drawings on them, and make all these rules to force people to play the game nicely, isntead of just going out and killing and raping for it like "the good old days".
People say that the modern system thrives on rugged individualism, yet it is the in name of the individual that we make all these rules about how one can treat each other. history has lasted 6000 years, and for basically 5600 of them slavery was normal. An every day thing. The Hebrwes were slaves, and when they set up thier state they had slaves. Everyone had slave, the birthplace of democracy was chuck full of them, so was the Republic of Rome. Some philosophers went as far as to explain why slavery was utterly normal and a basic part of mankind. And yet, in the very name of individual, we took the "right" of anyone being a master to anyone else. Something that had been since the beginning of civ now was gone, just right then and there.
And yet people tell us we have not gone far. nd if we have gone this far, why could we not go further?
As always, people come out and say that somehow "communism is against human nature" and that since capitalism wors within human nature, it can work: and why do they say this? Becuase they believe people are greedy and violent, and since they think (even though it isn;t actually true) that in communism greed is somehow outlawed, man will revolt against it, but not against capiatlsim. In short, that capitalism allows man to wallow in his own filth and be happy, instead of trying to unnaturally hose him off.
All of which sounds somewhat plausible until you look around you. I mean it, look. We live as far away form "human nature" as outlined above as anyone ever has.
Man is driven by greed and violence and he can't change? If so, why have we criminalized killing for honor, killing for faith? We have criminalized slavery, usery, beating your spouse: having your servants burried alive or dead (after killinfg them) to serve you in the hear-after. We have criminalized rape, having the wife throw herself in the fires of the husbands pyre, human sacrfice, even animal sacrifice. Letting the cripples and sick babies to die from exposure has been outlawed. Blood sports, the razing of cities, the decimation of units to teach them loyalty, punishment by cutting off limbs. When we aim to kill, we even go so far as to try to do it "humanely". Even the litte things, like vicious torture of criminals, drawn and quarterings, the rack, cruxifictions, burnings at the stakes, even these things that used to draw crowds are now banned. Even against animals this is banned. We live in a culture so removed form death that most posters here would get naseaus seeing their food slaughtered and cut up in front of them, so divorced form death (an omnipresent reality of being alive) that seeing someone die is a rare event, only a bit more rare than even seeing a dead body.
We live regimented lives, were all sorts of rules 'for our own good" abound, and many here defend them all. And yet these very same people say that man is so terrible that he can;t change and thus capitalism is the answer? Can;t change? What have we done then? Decked ourselves in silk lcothing, we fine monkeys? Is that all you think we have done?
People who say this are like guys playing monopoly and talking about how ruthless they are by how they play, when in fact if they were ruthless they would attempt to grab the board and beat the other players senseless with it. We are so rthless in fact, that instead of deciding who is boos by seeing who's boot is on whose throat, we decide to compete by seeing who can amass the most trinkets, numbers on a spreadsheet, and little pieces of paper with ink drawings on them, and make all these rules to force people to play the game nicely, isntead of just going out and killing and raping for it like "the good old days".
People say that the modern system thrives on rugged individualism, yet it is the in name of the individual that we make all these rules about how one can treat each other. history has lasted 6000 years, and for basically 5600 of them slavery was normal. An every day thing. The Hebrwes were slaves, and when they set up thier state they had slaves. Everyone had slave, the birthplace of democracy was chuck full of them, so was the Republic of Rome. Some philosophers went as far as to explain why slavery was utterly normal and a basic part of mankind. And yet, in the very name of individual, we took the "right" of anyone being a master to anyone else. Something that had been since the beginning of civ now was gone, just right then and there.
And yet people tell us we have not gone far. nd if we have gone this far, why could we not go further?
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