Night of the Living ComCap Debate....

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Oh, and by the way, doing as you asked, and looking at 1990-2000, instead of 1980-2000,

More than 24.5 MILLION net jobs added to the economy (after accounting for losses due to productivity, etc).

How is this possible, given what you've been telling us about the economy?

Could it be that maybe....just maybe, your "economic theory" has a whole in it the size of a freight train?

-=Vel=-

The 90s boom was a high tech boom. The demand for the new tools created jobs in itself. Now that the high tech sector has busted something else has to be done to create the jobs that continue to be lost at a rate of over 400,000 per week.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
War always used to be the answer. Maybe we can once and for get rid of the commies.

A war will not create the kind of jobs that it did then, because of productivity, better weapons and nukes. That option is off the table.

Oh, and you will never get ride of communism. You can't even get rid of poverty

[Meldor]

Vel,

Not to mention that if you look at any economic indicator, it has been expanding for the last 200 years. There have been small times of contraction, as in the 1920s, smaller recessions at other places, but over all the economy has continued to expand and stagnate or shrink. And that is Western world wide. Massive increases in both jobs and productivity. Unaccounted for by the statements made.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Meldor
Vel,

Not to mention that if you look at any economic indicator, it has been expanding for the last 200 years. There have been small times of contraction, as in the 1920s, smaller recessions at other places, but over all the economy has continued to expand and stagnate or shrink. And that is Western world wide. Massive increases in both jobs and productivity. Unaccounted for by the statements made.

No one said that capitalism wouldn't grow, certainly not Marx

[Velociryx]

Kid, this economic disneyland you have constructed for yourself might have worked to convince you that communism is god's preferred answer (oh wait! Can't say that, given that it's an atheist system) to the world's problems and that capitalism is doomed to fail, but you can't refute ANY of the numbers I've put on the table, can you? The US economy has been a job making MACHINE for the last twenty years...Almost fifty million jobs (net) added to the economy! That's....beyond huge!

First you tell me you want me to look at longer term data, then you compress the timeframe, looking at WEEKLY data (and I'd LOVE to see the cite where you pulled the 400,000 a week jobs lost!....care to share?).

So what's it going to be? Shall we look at long term trends, or do you want to focus on last week's economic news (given that we have been in a recession and are just now beginning to show signs of coming out of it).

Make up your flippin' mind!



-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Kid little, keeps predicting the mother of all depressions.

As I flippantly remarked it takes a galvanizing effort to lead a nation out of a serious depression. FDR's new deal wasn't going to cut it were it not for WW2.

OTOH the malaise of a communist system would make sure there wouldn't be any galvanizing effort save for massive oppression. Picks your poison.

Personally I would be in favor of capitalism that has untapped boundaries in the forms of Bioscience frontiers, space exploration and settlement, Sea exploration and settlement, clean energy development etc.

Faith in mans ability to innovate and grow as opposed to the status quo.

By the by were it not for the Great Depressionof the 20's the US would not be in a superior positionin the 50-60's to take advantage of superior infrastructure builds done during new deal era. Cyclical I understand, but far better off than the abysmall growth of communism.

[Velociryx]

Now Og, you KNOW the aborigenes tribes in Australia, with their isolation (no competition from capitalistic societies until very recently), abundance of land and resources, and communal organization could have QUITE EASILY become the most advanced people on the planet....they just chose not to....

Good case study for communism, actually.

Note how they are essentially frozen in time.

No development beyond the stone age except for what has been borrowed from capitalist cultures as they moved in.

No drive or need to innovate = no progress.

And you want this for our future? ::shakes head sadly::

-=Vel=-

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Vel Vel Vel,

To be fair, you haven't checked yesterdays job creation rate for the aborigines have you?

Lol....

[Velociryx]

And btw, I think that this expression has become permanently affixed to my face thanks to these debates!

----> <----




-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Nope....that's top secret information...the AbCommParty won't release those numbers, nor will they release any information on thier sixth generation space shuttle, which they build underground, you see (it has warp nacells mounted on it, and can--rumor has it--reach warp 4!)



-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Kid, this economic disneyland you have constructed for yourself might have worked to convince you that communism is god's preferred answer (oh wait! Can't say that, given that it's an atheist system) to the world's problems and that capitalism is doomed to fail, but you can't refute ANY of the numbers I've put on the table, can you? The US economy has been a job making MACHINE for the last twenty years...Almost fifty million jobs (net) added to the economy! That's....beyond huge!

I never said that jobs weren't created. I said that the umemployment rate is what matters. Another thing that matters is the inequality in income.

Originally posted by Velociryx
First you tell me you want me to look at longer term data, then you compress the timeframe, looking at WEEKLY data (and I'd LOVE to see the cite where you pulled the 400,000 a week jobs lost!....care to share?).

You're responsible for getting your own cites now since you decided to just pretend that I was making an argument that I wasn't making last time. Everyone knows that the weekly jobless claims have been over 400,000 for quite some time now.

Originally posted by Velociryx
So what's it going to be? Shall we look at long term trends, or do you want to focus on last week's economic news (given that we have been in a recession and are just now beginning to show signs of coming out of it).

Make up your flippin' mind!



-=Vel=-

You convenienly got confused again. I have no idea what you are talking about. I just explained the long term and short term trends.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
As I flippantly remarked it takes a galvanizing effort to lead a nation out of a serious depression. FDR's new deal wasn't going to cut it were it not for WW2.

I never said that it was. I'm the communist, remember?

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
By the by were it not for the Great Depressionof the 20's the US would not be in a superior positionin the 50-60's to take advantage of superior infrastructure builds done during new deal era. Cyclical I understand, but far better off than the abysmall growth of communism.

OMG, this is the most ridiculous thing said yet. Recessions and depressions cause permanent damage to the economy. I mean people have said that recessions are good for the economy, that is laughable, but the Great Depression, that is just totally absurd.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Nope just saying that even in bad times there is a silver lining. Were it not for the massive publics works programs enacted through FDR the US would not have been poised to become an even more productive and growing society once the depression was over.

So sorry your Mr. Gloomy Gus commie.

[Velociryx]

So...show me the site you pulled your data from? Where did you get YOUR numbers? That's what I'm asking.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
So...show me the site you pulled your data from? Where did you get YOUR numbers? That's what I'm asking.

-=Vel=-

What's the problem with finding the numbers for yourself. Stop trying to exploit me.