How did you change your political views?

[monkspider]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
Monkspider:

you have been tainted in college by liberal thinking. a couple years into being out of college, you'd probably go back to being a conservative

Believe it or not, my college is actually very conservative.

[MrFun]

I guess I was hoping too much for people to contribute their personal experiences in changing their political ideologies without using it as an opportunity to insult those who have different ideologies from them.

"When I was full of bulls*t once, I was a liberal . . ."

"I used to think I knew how the real world worked when I was conservative, but then common sense came to me, and I began to become more liberal . . ."

Nothing but arrogant hog-wash, if you ask me.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Zkribbler -

Liberals don't try to run your life? Who do you think got the US into Vietnam?

Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and their pluthera of advisers.

[Rex Little]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, and their pluthera of advisers.

Mostly JFK and LBJ. Not much happened there while Eisenhower was in; Nixon inherited the war from Johnson and eventually pulled the U.S. out (albeit not nearly soon enough). I think Berzerker's point is that Kennedy and Johnson were liberals.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
For you conservatives out there, have you read John Rawls? How would you refute his "veil of ignorance" argument?

Ha! Definitely one of the theories that changed my mind. I used to be a libertarian on all issues but the environment.

Then I grew up. I read Rawls and some critical race theory stuff. The big moment for me though, is when I worked in the Travis Co. Dept. of Corrections dealing with probationers. Every time we did probation orientation, I notced that the overwhelming number of DWI cases were black or hispanic and pulled in the East Riverside area of Austin. I lived in the West Campus area at the time. An area filled with frat boys, who on weekends, drove around drunk. Any cops to stop these guys? Nope. A frat boy started shooting .22 rounds at my girlfriend's parent's condo building. The police showed up, issued a warning, and - get this - didn't even confiscate the gun! If this had been a poor black guy instead of a white frat boy, the offender would still be in Huntsville getting raped. A complete pass for frat boy crackers.

But that wasn't the worst. The worst was in terms of length of probation and hours of community service. Lets look at first offense DWI for example. Minorities (black, hispanic, east asian, Indian, you name it) always got the max. Always. Middle class and upper class white men usually got 1/2 to 3/4 the community service hours and the full 2yrs of probation. Middle class white women usually 1/2 the community service and anywhere between 1 to 2yrs probation. Cute, young middle class white woman? 6mo. to 1yr probation, 1/4 to 1/2 the community service. Talk about disparities in sentencing. And this is in the most liberal place in Texas!

It was only a summer job, but working there completely changed my mind on class and race in the US.

My change to a more socialistic/third way economic position was a bit more complicated.

9/11 left me really suspicious of religion. I used to think that Christian Scientists had a right not to have their children receive medical treatment (like a good libertarian). Now, **** the superstitious bastards. Treat their kids and put them in prison if they resist. And no, it would not be imprisonment for their beliefs, it would be imprisonment for not treating their damn kids properly.

[The Templar]

Whoops!

[Berzerker]

Templar -

I used to be a libertarian on all issues but the environment.

Then I grew up. I read Rawls and some critical race theory stuff. The big moment for me though, is when I worked in the Travis Co. Dept. of Corrections dealing with probationers.

And you blame libertarians for the racist policies of Democrats and Republicans?

[Berzerker]

Btw, just what does libertarianism say about the environment?

[Az]

that you can dump your **** everywhere.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Templar -

And you blame libertarians for the racist policies of Democrats and Republicans?

Not at all. But I do firmly support affirmative action now (I was more on the fence back then - seeing it as a necessary evil if you will), and no longer believe canards about "everyone being able to make it if you try!" The fact is, the playing field is never level - if you're born with advantages like upper class parents or middle class parents or even white privilege - you have undeniable advantages under a free market system. One reflection of this is in the disparities of treatment in the judicial system. Most libertarias I know want a color blind system (I used to think this was a good idea too). Now I know this is wrong. You need color blind people first.

[The Templar]

Originally posted by Azazel
that you can dump your **** everywhere.

Most libertarians are a little more nuanced in their explanation than this, but essentially that's what it is.

[Berzerker]

Azazel -

that you can dump your **** everywhere.

Yeah, that wouldn't violate the principle of private property considered so important under libertarianism.

Templar -

But I do firmly support affirmative action now (I was more on the fence back then - seeing it as a necessary evil if you will), and no longer believe canards about "everyone being able to make it if you try!"

Obviously most people are helped in achieving their goals by being born with the genetic tools (how you plan to "equalise" that should be interesting), but Jim Crow and it's lingering effects were government infringements upon the free market. So you're pointing to the unwanted effects of government infringement on the market as a reason to continue infringing upon the market.

The fact is, the playing field is never level - if you're born with advantages like upper class parents or middle class parents or even white privilege - you have undeniable advantages under a free market system.

You have undeniable advantages under any system, even the commies will reward smarter people with more fulfilling jobs even if everyone is enslaved by the state.

One reflection of this is in the disparities of treatment in the judicial system. Most libertarias I know want a color blind system (I used to think this was a good idea too). Now I know this is wrong. You need color blind people first.

Ah, so all that stuff about racism you used as a reason to "grow up" and away from libertarianism had nothing to do with what libertarians advocate. Instead, it's about "equal opportunity"...But I'm glad to see you admit that you don't want a color blind government either...

Do you see the irony of pointing to the racism of differential treatment by government based on race only to advocate the same thing? All you've done is switch around the groups being treated differently...

[Az]

Yeah, that wouldn't violate the principle of private property considered so important under libertarianism.

and Since noone owns the air, and the seas.....

[Berzerker]

Most libertarians are a little more nuanced in their explanation than this, but essentially that's what it is.

If you're so ignorant about libertarianism on this issue, how did you become informed enough on other issues wrt libertarianism to conclude you were once a libertarian?

[Berzerker]

and Since noone owns the air, and the seas.....

So I can pollute lands I don't own under libertarianism? Hmm...