Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Velociryx]

To that I would say:

One of the systems we're talking about is currently working and thriving (sugessting that the bedrock foundation it rests upon is solid).

One of them is not.

Care to guess which is which??

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
No! It's not luck, any more than picking stocks is "lucky".

Man, you need to seriously get a reality check. When you invest your money in the market you better realize that there is a risk to it. If you are unlucky you lose. Is this just another absurd statement to impress all the AECCs here so 10 of them can come in here and tell you what a good debater you are and how stupid I am for claiming that a thing called luck actually exists?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Velociryx
So...how does referring to communism as "thievery" (which from the capitalist viewpoint it certainly is) have ANYTHING to do with your question (of why, under our current--capitalist--system, thievery is illegal?

You're making LESS than no sense now, GePap.

-=Vel=-

Christianity has BEANS to do with capitalism, and you said so yourself earlier (in your comment that it has no particular morality associated with it).

What is the meaning of theft in a capitalist viewpoint if capitalism has beans to do with judeo-Crhsitian values?

[Velociryx]

*sigh*

Yes. I chose to invest in Microsoft because despite recent court rulings against them, all the fundamentals were strong, and though the stock price took a bit of a beating during the trials, there was nothing about their numbers that sugessted they'd stay down.

Boy did I ever get lucky!

-=Vel=-

[GePap]

Originally posted by Velociryx
To that I would say:

One of the systems we're talking about is currently working and thriving (sugessting that the bedrock foundation it rests upon is solid).

One of them is not.

Care to guess which is which??

-=Vel=-

And since you seem to base your definition of communism on that caricature you gave Kid, I would have to seriously question what the basis of your arguements were.

[Velociryx]

I base my caracature of communism on the arguments I got from your fellow Comrades right here in this thread....if it's wrong, put your heads together and come up with a more coherent debate....

-=Vel=-

[GePap]

I would like an answer to the theft question Vel.

[Velociryx]

I've given you several.....since nothing is bedrock, just pick the one you like best....

-=Vel=-

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by GePap
I would like an answer to the theft question Vel.

What do you think of mine above ?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by GePap
If economic systems have no morality assigned to them, words liek theft have no place in a dscussion of resource allocation. BUt you used the word theft to reffer to communism, so deal with the consequences of your arguements.

You don't need to refer to moral arguments. Capital markets function most efficiently when risks are known and mitigated. If you've ever dealt with large capital finance documents (let's say 7 figures up as a threshhold, even though that's pretty damn small), most of the verbage and conditions aren't about the finance mechanism itself, they're about different forms of risk and the required steps to mitigate that risk.

If I buy something, but have no reasonable assurance against arbitrary seizure, I'm pretty stupid to buy something visible. I either hide my money in fence post banks, or I hire a bunch of mercenary bastards to guard it for me (perhaps I call them knights and squires, with a little levy of footsoldiers to fill out the ranks).

The risk of arbitrary seizure creates an inefficiency, simply because it hinders capital purchases, and hinders all acquisition of assets, not just "excess" acquisition.

Capitalist models of taxation and valuation amount to a partial seizure of capital, but at least the means and the amounts can be predicted beforehand, so the investor / purchaser can easily work with net assets and net after tax returns, and make decisions on that basis.

Asset seizure by the state is effectively a 100% tax, and it was long clear before Marx was ever born that such tax levels were folly.

No "morals" need enter into the issue, just the efficient function of the marketplace.

[GePap]

DAVOUT:

You answered a previous incarnation of the theft question, and from a political point of view (which i would agree with), not an eocnomic one, which is what I am asking Vel now.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
*sigh*

Yes. I chose to invest in Microsoft because despite recent court rulings against them, all the fundamentals were strong, and though the stock price took a bit of a beating during the trials, there was nothing about their numbers that sugessted they'd stay down.

Boy did I ever get lucky!

-=Vel=-

Here we go again. Hey everyone Vel made a successfull investment. That means that there is no luck involved in making an investment.

Please Vel. Bring a real argument to the table. Improve the debate.l

[GePap]

Thank you MtG for an answer Vel was not comming up with.

What about other "inefficiencies", and hoiw do you calculate them?

or example, is $500 a bottle hand lotion an "inefficiency", or just "an irrational choice"?

[DAVOUT]

Originally posted by GePap
DAVOUT:

You answered a previous incarnation of the theft question, and from a political point of view (which i would agree with), not an eocnomic one, which is what I am asking Vel now.

In your thread about question you would like answers, I asked a connected question which was never answered : is laundering money bad or good for the economy.

[Velociryx]

From a purely economic standpoint then, thievery adds nothing to the economic process.

It's not a service. It does not create or add value to any factor of production, and as such, has no place in the economic equation.

And Kid, I'll not deny that there IS an element of luck involved in some investments. That's true because of the presence of risk, but as MtG mentioned earlier, risk can be mitigated. Risk is not the driving factor that determines failure or success.

-=Vel=-