Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Velociryx]

The reason I'm against "compensating" those with relatively fewer opportunities is because those with relatively "more" opportunities weren't given them by society. They MADE them, by virtue of hard, smart work.

So, if a person is out there busting his a$$ to make something of himself and succeeds at it, why SHOULD he compensate those that won't do the same? Just because he has "more"? That is not a sufficient reason.

If BECAUSE he has more, these others have less, of course, but economics is not a zero-sum game. In short, it doesn't work that way. Bill Gates' wealth did NOTHING to deny you wealth. Thus, the fact of his obvious affluence should do an equal amount (ie - NOTHING) to afford you more.

And just for the record, it wasn't a personal attack....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

And if the opportunities aren't there, and aren't able to be created, then I would not be where I am. I am therefore, an anachronism to your ideology. I cannot exist.

-=Vel=-

EDIT: No....there's more to say than what was said in the post above.

You are saying that society should take from the most creative, productive individuals because they *as individuals* made more of and for themselves than most, and in the vast majority of cases, they did so WITHOUT taking from society (ie - Bill Gates has done more to CREATE more millionaires in this and other countries than he ever did "exploiting" people and robbing them of their wealth or of opportunites for wealth....ask anyone who has ever bought Microsoft stock!)

So...even though these folks did not take from society, society should take from them to make things "even."

My question is this: If you want things to be more "even," then why not follow in their footsteps. Stop whining that someone has more, get up and DO something about it! Go MAKE some opportunities!

Do you think the first settlers here, hacking their futures out of the wilders bemoaned the fact that the folks back in England had more....whined about it and demanded that their English cousins send them their "fair share"? Or is it more likely that they put their noses to the proverbial grindstone, worked their a$$es off, and made a difference.

The opportunities are there. Everywhere. If you don't even bother to look, it should come as no great shock when you don't find them.

-=Vel=-

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious
If one person has greater opportunity than someone else why are you so against the person with more opportunity compensating the person with less oppertunity. What is unfair about that? It seems against everything you stand for, for someone to get an advantage like that and not compensate society for it.

This is already done via the progressive Federal income tax system, which tilts the entire aggregate mess of Federal, state and local taxes towards progression.

As I pointed out in the other thread, my marginal tax exposure on dividendable income this year will be over 65% from all sources.

I'm also in surtax country, where the maximum rate bumps up a few percent to suck up the effect of personal exemptions, standard deduction, and lower level tax brackets, so with a little extra effort, my total tax exposure on *net* income can approach the marginal level. Then it could go down a tiny so the slight relief from the Social Security cap starts to show.

The only real break I get is that I won't be dividending myself this year, or likely next, so I can accumulate retained earnings to be a greedy capitalist bastard and invest in growing my company. That "break" (since the corporate profits are taxed at high rates anyway) only occurs because the profits in my company will stay in my company, not be made available for me to engage in an orgy of mindless consumer spending.

The net effect overall is that I'll be paying more in absolute terms and in percentage terms than the vast majority of taxpayers. So don't tell me I'm not subsidizing other people's "opportunity" as you put it.

[Velociryx]

And to clarify, yes. As MtG says, the rich (those who have "more") are taxed much more heavily than the poor.

In those terms, what you are saying is already occuring. Those with the biggest ability to pay are paying the most.

That is as it should be, but it's not enough for you.

Because they have more, your Comrades should have the "right" to raid his piggy bank to make things all nice and even.

It's not enough that he pays more taxes...oh no. You want those dollars in YOUR bank account. That they exist at all, means everyone should get a cut. Doesn't matter that you had nothing to do with their creation. Nosirrie. They exist, and that means you are entitled. and let's face it, it's easier to toss him in the Gulag and take some of his than to go out and make your own, right? I mean, that's the bottom line, isn't it?

The ideology is becoming clearer alllllll the time.

-=Vel=-

[DinoDoc]

You people do realize that you're bashing your head against a brick wall, don't you?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
The reason I'm against "compensating" those with relatively fewer opportunities is because those with relatively "more" opportunities weren't given them by society. They MADE them, by virtue of hard, smart work.

Crap. Sorry but I'm tiring of this crap. Don't you have anything more.

[Velociryx]

I agree. Hard work is crap. Why bother? When the "glorious revolution" comes along, we'll just toss all those greedy, exploitive ba$***** into the "reeducation camp" and take thiers! A much easier solution than earning it!

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat
This is already done via the progressive Federal income tax system, which tilts the entire aggregate mess of Federal, state and local taxes towards progression.

Which isn't enough and which you are against anyway.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Crap. Sorry but I'm tiring of this crap. Don't you have anything more.

The truth hurts. Sorry, it isn't your fault that your religious dogma doesn't correspond to reality.

[ajbera]

Opportunities will never be equal. Some innate characteristics, like high intelligence, great beauty or charisma, can help a person open doors more easily than those without these traits. Do we compensate people for being stupid, ugly, and unpopular?

[Velociryx]

Not to worry, MtG....you'll note that when confronted with the uncomfortable truth, the debate stops, and all the other side can come up with is....denial?

And DD...I know...I know....what can I say....I'm stubborn like that....

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Oh yes, Ajbera! By all means we should! At the end of the day, everything has to be EXACTLY equal, you see.

It's not their fault....the opportunities just aren't there for them....society should therefore compensate these poor, abused individuals by ponying up....those that resist...gulag...er...."reeducation camp" sorry....

If we redistributed all the world's wealth tomorrow, NO ONE would ever have to work! I can't believe those greedy bastards are holding out on us like that! Storm the gates!

-=Vel=-

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Which isn't enough and which you are against anyway.

(a) Eat me if you think you're entitled to raise my marginal tax rate exposure above the 65%+ level they're at already. Go out and work an extra job and pay some more taxes yourself.

(b) I never said I was against a progressive tax system. My objection is to the level of maximum rates and the inefficiency in government spending and operations that reduces the benefits to the consumer of government services in comparison to the tax dollars extracted.

[Kidlicious]

I'm not going around in circles with you guys. Come up with a new and GOOD argument and I will continue. Otherwise see you on the next issue.

[Velociryx]

Good arguments? Good arguments?! Dear GOD man, you've not yet been able to refute anything we've thrown at you so far!

Rather than trying, you revert back to chanting a century-old mantra that has failed on so many levels it's almost beyond counting.

How 'bout this: Join a commune with others who believe like you and prove that it can work? Put your money where your mouth is, you know?

Better yet, take me up on my challenge.

But no....can't do either of those things.....it wouldn't do to have even MORE evidence stacked up against you.

So....you keep on whining about how unfair life is, and hoping for the start of the "glorious revolution" to kick in and give you your "fair share," I'll get back to work, and MtG will get back to his software development.

We can compare notes in 3-5 years to see who's gotten further.



-=Vel=-