Why Capitalists are Capitalists...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Perhaps in Mexico, but not in countries where people regularly get shot for organising. Plus the work is likely to be dangerous since one reason companies leave is that they don't want to pay for safe workplaces. Have worldwide labour standards and I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it.

They still make more money. If the factory did not offer higher wages, the workers would never go there! They are relatively better off.

Come on man, you are studying to be a lawyer: me more precise with words.

I am... you just won't listen.

Capitalist - one who backs capitalism

Industrialist - one who owns industry (which is capital)

I asked you, what do you call one who backs capitalism if 'capitalist' means someone who owns capital. You haven't come up with an answer. Like I also said, I want to be called a capitalist. 'Liberal' has been usurped by the left.

[GePap]

[SIZE=1]

I am... you just won't listen.

Capitalist - one who backs capitalism

Industrialist - one who owns industry (which is capital)

I asked you, what do you call one who backs capitalism if 'capitalist' means someone who owns capital. You haven't come up with an answer. Like I also said, I want to be called a capitalist. 'Liberal' has been usurped by the left.

You could, say use capitalist to differentialte between a cheerleader and a Capitalist, someone who has capital. As for Industrialist, another difficult term: do you really call the Chairman of some Insurance company an industralist?

And then I could demand a defitnion of capitalist, one to match a working definition of communists, since there are a great number of communist possibilities, from a Monk to a Marxist to a Maoist to a Hippie.

[Imran Siddiqui]

do you really call the Chairman of some Insurance company an industralist?

Yes... I sure as Hell don't refer to him as a capitalist (I don't know his politics ).

And then I could demand a defitnion of capitalist, one to match a working definition of communists, since there are a great number of communist possibilities, from a Monk to a Marxist to a Maoist to a Hippie.

That's fine... one who backs capitalism can encompase anyone from Libertarians, Republicans, Social Democrats (like Sava, who likes capitalism but wants more controls on it). It's a fairly broad definition I have.

Is your solution to use lower case to distinguish if someone backs capitalism?

[Velociryx]

Apologies for the delay in responding....cable modem was on the fritz.....and Kid, you kill me! I dunno what planet you're on, but case studies are considered pretty bedrock stuff as far as evidence is concerned. If you refuse to believe in the power of capitalism after being shown a living, breathing example of a success, then you simply are closing your eyes to it. (it's like a little kid stamping his feet and covering his eyes or ears to pretend not to hear what the grownups are saying).

And Albert, thanks! Although, sadly, the "score" is actually wider than it looks, as I left off a number of life's victories (croaking when I was 31, almost croaking again the next year, the suicide of the pal I got out of the cult, etc), but :: shrug:: the point is, *despite* all the setbacks, the kid just kept coming back for more, and eventually, really started to make some significant changes.

I DEFY any of you commies to bring to my attention a case study that would be impossible for us to map out a specific strategy for improvement (dramatic improvement) using the capitalist system you all swear up and down does not work.

Bring it! If you're so damned confident that the system is broken, take me up on my challenge.

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Apologies for the delay in responding....cable modem was on the fritz.....and Kid, you kill me! I dunno what planet you're on, but case studies are considered pretty bedrock stuff as far as evidence is concerned. If you refuse to believe in the power of capitalism after being shown a living, breathing example of a success, then you simply are closing your eyes to it. (it's like a little kid stamping his feet and covering his eyes or ears to pretend not to hear what the grownups are saying).

You just don't have the numbers. That's why one example is no evidence at all. You have to look at the numbers as a whole.

[Velociryx]

the numbers are on my side too! That's the funny part! YES! The gap between rich and poor has grown in the past fifty years. Absolutely no denying that. BUT, in the same breath, the standard of living in this nation, the average salary (adjusted for inflation) has ALSO increased dramatically. Meaning: The poor are getting richer too.

And I repeat my challenge. IF the system is broken, then bring me a living, breathing case study and let me work on it. If things are as hopelessly broken as you say they are, then you should enjoy watching me fail.

YOU pick the person. Doesn't matter what their current situation is. Bring 'em.....or are you chicken?

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Bring it! If you're so damned confident that the system is broken, take me up on my challenge.

-=Vel=-

Are you saying that you can make everyone rich? Wow that's quite an achievement? Why don't you start a business that makes people rich? You could let them pay on credit. If you're so good at it maybe we'll see you on an infomercial right after the exercise equipment guy and the invest in real estate guy.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Is your solution to use lower case to distinguish if someone backs capitalism?

Its the quickest and simplest one, without having to define capitalism to any degree.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
the numbers are on my side too! That's the funny part! YES! The gap between rich and poor has grown in the past fifty years. Absolutely no denying that. BUT, in the same breath, the standard of living in this nation, the average salary (adjusted for inflation) has ALSO increased dramatically. Meaning: The poor are getting richer too.

No true at all. Check the statistics and report back.

[Velociryx]

That's not what I'm saying. I'll repeat it again. BRING ME SOMEONE. You pick the person. Doesn't matter what their current situation is.

We'll sit down and map out a plan to improve that situation (and in all likelihood, improve it dramatically). Right here. In full view of everybody.

If the system is broken, then it won't work, right? And you'll have a good chuckle watching me fail. What could be better than that, for someone against the current system?

I'm ready when you are....

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Bring 'em.....or are you chicken?
-=Vel=-

Maybe you are talented in this sort of thing, but you can't make everyone rich. There just aren't opportunities for everyone.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
We'll sit down and map out a plan to improve that situation (and in all likelihood, improve it dramatically). Right here. In full view of everybody.
-=Vel=-

You would have to actually use the plan to make the person rich or it wouldn't prove anything.

[Velociryx]

And why would that be? *I'm* not going to have to do anything other than draw the roadmap. The ultimate success or failure will not rest with me, and the level of improvement will be DIRECTLY tied to the amount of effort the yet-to-be-chosen individual puts forth.

But.....already I can sense you waffling, which suggests strongly that you will not take me up on my challenge, cos you're afraid I'll succeed, and we couldn't have that.....more proof that the current system works for everybody? EGADS! Cos then that'd make the whole movement a bit silly....

-=Vel=-

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
And why would that be? *I'm* not going to have to do anything other than draw the roadmap. The ultimate success or failure will not rest with me, and the level of improvement will be DIRECTLY tied to the amount of effort the yet-to-be-chosen individual puts forth.

But.....already I can sense you waffling, which suggests strongly that you will not take me up on my challenge, cos you're afraid I'll succeed, and we couldn't have that.....more proof that the current system works for everybody? EGADS! Cos then that'd make the whole movement a bit silly....

-=Vel=-

Not at all. I agree that a plan can be created, but if you want to prove that anyone can follow the plan and succeed then you will have to do more to prove that.

[Velociryx]

Doesn't matter. You're not gonna bring me someone anyway.

As to following the plan...yes. That's why it's a plan. A recepie. Anybody who has a cake mix and the proper ingredients can bake a cake. Not much to it. Step 1, step 2, step 3....til you're done.

If you don't follow the recipe, you don't get a cake.

I'm not going to stand over this person's shoulder and MAKE them follow the directions, but if they do, marked improvement WILL result (and if the system is broke, then it shouldn't).

-=Vel=-